Hello, maybe it’s out of scope of this community, but it’s an haunting question i can’t answer and i hope someone could do it for me: what’s the logic behind the reasoning of Jenner about the trans cause? It seems that she zigzags permanently in this subject. She in turn:

-a misaimed transactivist

-a boomrang bigot

-disinteresed of transactivism

-asking seemingly deliberately to leopards to eat her face

-whining when it happens but still loyal to the said leopards

-advocating for the said leopards going vegan

I don’t get the logic behind her reasoning since it’s not remotely consistent (outside her endorsement to the GOP), it’s worse than people who are stubborn about their opinions, who are at least coherent with themselves.

  • Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Just a classic case of having two sets of conflicting friends. She’s rich and conservative, and she’s trans. The two groups don’t get along, and when it comes time to pick a side, let’s just say she’s been a selfish bigot longer than she’s been a woman.

  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    So in order to understand her you need to understand three things about her: First, she’s a lifelong republican mostly concerned with the economic side, but party affiliation is important to her personal identity and social world. Second, she’s trans and tried to suppress it then hide her transition as long as she could until she was outed by the media. Third, she isn’t very bright and is absolutely incurious.

    In shithole America we set our scene. It’s 2015, Laverne Cox has charmed the country and trans rights are starting to be something people care about. But also tabloids have been asking of Jenner is trans, because girl was married to the Kardashian mom and was not hiding it super well. So she hosts a press conference and comes out. This is both the first time a lot of the viewers have ever seen a trans person talk about their own experiences and identity and it’s also a shitshow. Like, I was coming out as trans at the time and I distinctly remember hearing that she claimed she was still straight, she liked women. Yeah, girl that’s gay now, thanks for making me have to correct you to my aunt…

    And from there she attempted to start a TV show about trans lives and experiences focusing on her transition but getting several trans activists and actresses on it as well. This went, poorly. Our community has a variety of very real, material, and social struggles. We tend to lack family support (and the ability to rely on family in bad times), we face (and especially back then when we rarely were included in nondiscrimination laws) quite a bit of employment discrimination, forcing many of us into sex work, we face increased rates of intimate partner violence, increased rates of poverty, a pay gap even below cis women… And Jenner just kinda didn’t care. This is where you get stuff like the infamous quote about the hardest part of womanhood for her being picking clothes. Oh also it became increasingly clear she was very homophobic but with cognitive dissonance. As far as she was concerned she was rich and didn’t have to draw attention to poor people problems or even the poor people variants of difficulties she had.

    And so the trans community rapidly abandoned hope that she might increase understanding and respect for us and the real struggles our community faced. And she kinda became the textbook example of who not to be for trans people often compared to folks like Chaz Bono or Laverne Cox. We kinda really fucking hated her tbh.

    But then 2016 rolls around, Trump isn’t being openly hateful to queer people, he’s even said that she could use the women’s room in his properties. So she joins in, she starts repeating the wedge talking points of the transphobes who don’t want to feel bigoted, just concerned. And from there it becomes an endless cycle of her trying to convince her friends and political sphere to relent on this one issue, and for them to see that there are “good ones” who will take concessions and not rock the boat, but never getting anything out of it. The alternative is to accept that even a rich trans person isn’t in the rich class, not really, and that her true material interests lie not with her friends but with the people who’d been calling her out and trying to convince her to learn about her people’s struggles.

    So yeah she thinks that she can get the world to see her as a rich person who happens to be trans, and refuses to see that the world just sees her as a tranny with a lot of money, and the ones who think that the latter is fine dislike her for her actions and beliefs.

  • MonsterTrick@piefed.world
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    7 days ago

    what’s the logic behind the reasoning of Jenner about the trans cause?

    Rich celebrities think they’re above people and won’t be affect which to a certain extent, that’s true. That being said, Caitlyn is a transwoman which especially with right now is the worst time to be kissing any transphobes ass. There’s some trans people (not all of them) that thinks their the real trans people because they have transition, have meds etc which is just bunch of nonsense, real trans people are one that are trans… that’s it.

  • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Not all people are logical. I had a coworker who honestly thought all women were better than all men and all dogs were better than all people, in every category, for both. She argued that endurance was a more important athletic skill than strength for humans but not for dogs and that speed was only important if it was significantly faster than humans can run. You could argue her into the tightest of corners and she’d walk through the walls because she didn’t have any internal logic.

    She was really capable in an academic sense, but it was impossible for me to consider her smart. She was pretty fun though, and wasn’t shitty to the men in her life or anything, bizarrely. She did not make it known to them in any way and she behaved perfectly kindly towards them, she just didn’t respect them. She was like the inverse of the better husbands in mad men (minus the cheating and/or abuse- I only watched the first season, so I don’t know how bad it gets).

    I wouldn’t really say we were friends, because it made it really hard to respect her, but we were friendly in the huge, hostile office with 95% of the staff at least twenty years our senior.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    what’s the logic behind the reasoning of Jenner about the trans cause?

    She cares about herself and only herself…

    You also need to understand people have all types of motivation for transitioning.

    Some people just feel more comfortable and want to live life that way, some are like Noem’s husband and it’s just a sex thing where they feel humiliation but want that.

    But like everything else, it’s not a binary thing. She might want to transition full time and live life that way, but still (at least subconsciously) wants to be humialted and that’s why she’s republican.

    It’s always super weird when any community wants to act like a monolith or that the solution is 3-4 categories instead of 2. The real answer is human variation is never binary, and everyone has their own motivations for everything they do.

    Thinking of her as being transgender and trying to view everything thru that lens is just as dumb as any other gender discrimination, or really any other.

    She’s a piece of shit who supports other pieces of shit, her being transgender doesn’t automatically mean she does (or needs to) support everyone else who transitioned. Like, I know people that transitioned, I don’t expect them to defend Jenner just because of that one shared experience. Because that’s still just one aspect of them as a person.

    But people still expect Jenner to support everyone who transitioned for some reason. Even when they disagree on literally everything else. It’s distilling everything down to “us or them” and the reason this line of thinking is showing up on the left, is the American education system was gutted generations ago.

    • Kobibi@sh.itjust.works
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      7 days ago

      Look I agree with your main argument about people being varied and complicated. But there’s a couple things there that I think should be called out:

      some are like Noem’s husband and it’s just a sex thing where they feel humiliation but want that

      That’s not transitioning - he didn’t transition. A cross dressing or sissification or bimbofication fetish is one thing and we could debate about misogyny vs kinkshaming or whatever, but whatever way you slice it its different than transitioning.

      Perhaps I’m too caught up on this, but the fact is that people often conflate transitioning with sexual motivations and fetishes inaccurately and in bad faith, and its not accurate

      but still (at least subconsciously) wants to be humialted and that’s why she’s republican

      Similar to the above, I don’t think there’s any suggestion she ‘wants to be humiliated’ rather than acting in her self interest as a wealthy white woman. And yeah possibly there’s internalised transphobia as well or something? But that’s different than wanting to be humiliated, which to me implies some kind of sexual thing. Which again, needs to be entirely divorced from transitioning in the discourse

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        That’s not transitioning - he didn’t transition.

        Right…

        He is on one extreme.

        And as I said, it’s not binary.

        Some people, dress fulltime, but still have the same motivations as Noem’s husband.

        It’s weird…

        I wrote all that about how we should look at people individually, and you definitely read it, but still responded saying the “real solution” is making a shit ton of boxes to put them in along a single axis.

        Completely and totally missing the larger point that there’s innumerable different axis.

        The logical result of your idea, ends in mine where everyone is a unique person.

        You’re just not thinking all the way thru.

        Even two people on exactly the same spot on this axis, have so many different things, that getting them in the same “box” on this a is is pointless.

        All boxes are pointless when talking about an individual.

        You’re thinking of nouns and not adjectives, and that’s reductive even if coming from a good place.

        Edit:

        To clarify, Noem’s husband was an example of someone who (infrequently and in private) portrays themselves as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth.

        It is a very long axis, and on the other end are people who get full surgery and live entire lives as a different gender.

        Along the axis are occasional cross dressers, drag queens, people that just change underwear, and just literally too many different points to list.

        Because if you keep looking closer, no two humans are ever exactly the same on any single axis.

        Making two boxes is dumb.

        Making 3 boxes is dumb, or 4 or 27, or however many different boxes, it will never be enough until every one has their own box, which is where we’d end up treating everyone as individuals on an individual level.

        • Kobibi@sh.itjust.works
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          7 days ago

          Conflating a cross-dressing kink and trans people is not talking about a variety of spectrums, it’s just innacurate

          One is sexually motivated, the other isn’t. It’s a clear line.

          I agree that people are too complex to be put into boxes, but we can talk about issues without overlapping them with completely separate ideas because of surface level similarities like wearing clothing designed for a different sex than your biological one.

          The spectrum of people with humiliation or cross dressing kicks and trans people are two circles that might overlap like a Venn diagram, but they’re fundamentally different and acting like they aren’t is reducing trans people to sexually motivated fetishists. Its just not accurate

          Again, to be perfectly clear: someone with a bimbofication kink is not on the same ‘axis’ as a trans person, and I find the suggestion that they are to be problematic at best and bigoted at worst

          Edit:

          some people dress full time, but still have the same motivations as Noems’s husband

          This is it really. This is not an accurate or realistic portrayal of trans people. It’s a fun house mirror of trans identities pushed by bigots

    • stemy@lemmy.mlOP
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      7 days ago

      I know there are boomrang bigots among the trans community, and they usually do not zigzags as much as her about their opinion and generally support transphobic things as long as it doesn’t affect them (or at least they think so). They have at least a bit of consistency, which i don’t see in the Jenner case.

  • LordMayor@piefed.social
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    7 days ago

    Mental illness is the broad, simple answer. I don’t know enough about her to even guess at the specifics. But, people behave irrationally, poorly, meanly when they feel insecure, unsafe. Like most conservatives, she’s probably plagued by many insecurities that make her seek out something to blame and some group in which to take refuge.

    Not trying to diagnose but, she could be bipolar and these at the symptoms of her swinging between the extremes.

  • _‌_反いじめ戦隊@ani.social
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    7 days ago

    Cognitive dissonance.

    She needs therapy, and deconstruction of her true self, to find out what she really believes in.

    There are no qualified psychiatrists in threadiverse that can diagnose her CogDis, to be able to intersect her Nazi praxis. I pray she finds a good therapist to help her see the error of her dissonance.