Repost from a little earlier because I spent too much time on my answer and I’m salty that OP deleted the thread.
Same reason that Catholic/Christian holidays are on Pagan days… Erasure.
Because the bastards knew they couldn’t convert them when they were alive, so fuck it, they’ll wait until they’re dead and disicrate the remains. It’s no different than when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints went around converting dead jews, even ones from the holocaust, from converting even though they were told not to.
Religious bastards will stop at nothing to convert anyone.
How do you convert someone who is dead?
Baptism by proxy unfortunately.
Oh, they also marry the dead.
It’s a religious thing in general.
In my country there’s examples of religious sites changing hands several times.
For instance the San Vicente Mártir Church, were transformed into Cordoba Mosque when the Muslims invaded the Iberian peninsula, and then after the Reconquista Christians turned it into a Cathedral.
Religion is about power. And you cannot let the old power to preserve their place if you want your new power to hold control.
It was due to a direct order from a pope (George/Gregory #??) to not destroy “high places” but to use them to gain more traction from the locals. There’s actually a still intact letter written by him, sent to the guy in charge of converting the pagans in scandinavia. There is no known better representation of this than Norways(?) oldest stave church. It is a christian church, built/ordered to be built by christians yet the inside is full of pagan themes. There is even a tiny one-eyed Odin a top one of the pillars. *The stave church, IIRC, is Borgund. Really famous one. If you go, bring a flashlight and maybe binoculars and look at all the tiny carvings not usually seen by people up high in the ceiling and pillars.
It was a strategy of conversion from “respect”. As if to say both religions are the same; Odin is just a ‘mask’ for god. Our religion is closer to the truth. It worked very well.
Sauce: I did a whole course on this because a bunch of historians asked the same question.
*Found the letter! It was by Pope Gregory I, directing abbot Mellitus c. 597 CE:
Tell Augustine that he should be no means destroy the temples of the gods but rather the idols within those temples. Let him, after he has purified them with holy water, place altars and relics of the saints in them. For, if those temples are well built, they should be converted from the worship of demons to the service of the true God. Thus, seeing that their places of worship are not destroyed, the people will banish error from their hearts and come to places familiar and dear to them in acknowledgement and worship of the true God.
My (shorter) answer: the same reason the Romans called both Isis and Aphrodite Venus (and they tried to roll Jesus into Dionysus / Bacchus interestingly enough).
Same reason Pine trees are used to celebrate a birth in the desert… Or bunnies laid eggs to celebrate his resurrection…
When Europe was converted, the only thing that matters is when asked “are you Christian?” Europeans replied “yes”.
So whatever Pagans were doing, was co-opted into Christianity.
And that included not just their rituals and objects of worship, but their holy sites as well.
Past gods became saints, and often the main change to worship sites was a cross was erected in the middle.
After decades and generations went by, church officials moved in and slowly started indoctrination on the youth, and as each generation grew up, the pagans ties were slowly eroded.
After centuries, no one questions it.
It was a long game.
Or bunnies laid eggs to celebrate his resurrection…
Apparently the idea that Easter is appropriation of a pagan holiday is a myth. The history is a bit more complicated; here are some historians who can explain it smarter than me: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1sd7bgp/does_easter_symbology_have_pagan_roots/
Or if you prefer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q31k28_rdTg
You can say what you want about “Páshka” or “Passover”, but there’s no way in Hell “Easter” isn’t related to “Ēostre” (and “estrus,” and “east” – think ‘rising sun’ – and spring/rebirth/fertility concepts in general). Just because a holiday may not have been appropriated from an earlier one for the Greeks or Romans, doesn’t mean it wasn’t appropriated from an earlier one for the Germanic peoples.
Syncretism is the term that explains this best. The Romans had a habit if not entirely crushing the beliefs of the people they conquered, they just stuck their own on top of the local beliefs and brought some of those traditions back to rome.
Fast forward a long ass time and now most everyone has a winter soltice festival.
I came to a lot of peace with my childhood when I came to the realization that Christianity was at it’s best when it was syncretist. The Christians who I was able to get along with as a kid were always the ones my parents said weren’t real Christians because they “denied the divinity of Jesus” by not being trinitarian. They always spoke very poorly of the western mystery traditions and it was easy to see their viewpoint because they’re both graduate degree engineers so of course it was only logical. Realistically the people they were talking shit about were the ones who actually understood the point and weren’t in it to feel superior to other people. Now I have tarot cards too and it’s lit.
At least part of Easter was a Germanic holiday with the giant bunny handing out eggs and whatever. Forget what they call it.
Again, I’m not a historian but there’s some evidence to the contrary. The TL;DR is that Easter is a Christian holiday but secular traditions became associated with it centuries later:
"The earliest certain attestation of the Easter bunny dates to 1682, in a pamphlet titled Satyrae medicae continuatio XVIII disputatione ordinaria disquirens de ovis paschalibus (‘continuation of a medical satire no. 18, enquiring in a serial disputation on the subject of Easter eggs’) by G. Franck von Franckenau, published in Heidelberg,…:
In Germania Superiore, Palatinatu nostrate, Alsatia et vicinis locis, ut et in Westphalia vocantur haec ova di Hasen-Eier a fabula, qua simplicioribus et infantibus imponunt Leporem (der Oster-Hase) eiusmodi ova excludere, et in hortis in gramine, fruticetis et c. abscondere ut studiosius a pueris investigentur, cum risu et iucunditate seniorum. Et revera saepe leporum, h. e. Imprudentium nomine possunt venire, qui eiusmodi ovis exposititiis non solummodo iocos quaerunt: Siquidem saepe cum illis ovis pueri valetudinis suae magnam inveniunt iacturam; quando dein, semoto arbitro, ista iusto avidius per ingluviem ingurgitant, sine sale, butiro, aut alio condimento; …
In Upper Germany, (my) native Palatinate, Alsatia, and neighbouring regions, as also in Westphalia, these eggs are called ‘the Rabbit Eggs’, because they have a custom for simple people and children that a Rabbit – ‘the Easter Rabbit’ – hides the eggs in such a manner, and conceals them in gardens in the grass, fruit trees and so on, for them to be hunted out very carefully by children, to the laughter and amusement of their elders. And in fact people can sometimes come by the name of ‘rabbits’, that is, fools, if they search when eggs are hidden in this way not just as a joke. In fact children often do serious damage to their health with these eggs, if their guardian is absent, if they devour them too greedily out of gluttony, without salt or butter or other condiment …
(The pamphlet goes on about the eggs, but doesn’t mention the rabbit again.)
There are claims floating around that there’s an earlier reference to the Bunny dating to 1572. As pointed out to me earlier this year (offsite) by someone going under the name of ‘Marvin’, this is a misattribution derived from a 1933 article –
Vielleicht spielt auch schon Fischart in ‘Aller Praktik Grossmutter’ (1572) auf den Osterhasen an, wenn er sagt: ‘Sorg nicht, dass dir der Haas vom Spiess entlauf: Haben wir nicht die Eier, so braten wir das Nest’.
Perhaps Fischart also already played on the Easter Rabbit in ‘All Grandma’s customs’ (1572) where he says: ‘Don’t worry if the Rabbit escapes from the spit: if we don’t have the eggs, we’ll cook the nest’.
However, the 1572 source doesn’t contain this line: it actually comes from Sander’s Gargantua und Pantagruel vol. 3, page 420, published in 1787. How the 1933 article came to misattribute the line is beyond my knowledge.
Anyway, that means the line is nearly a century later than the actual earliest attestation. Franck von Franckenau, in 1682, remains the earliest source for the Easter Bunny.
There is incidentally no evidence for any link between rabbits and the pre-Christian English goddess Eostre, attested by Bede in the early 700s. I once thought this link was suggested by Jacob Grimm in his Deutsche Mythologie (1835), albeit purely as a speculation, but now that I look at Grimm again I don’t find any such suggestion there. I’m not certain what the origin of that supposed link is.
There are various reports of alternative Easter critters in Germany up to the early 20th century (and potentially later), such as the Easter Fox and a Franconian Easter Stork. To the extent that they are legitimate, they would tend to indicate that the Easter Bunny originates in a German Easter Critter of indeterminate species, but I don’t have anywhere to point for good documentation for them: I can vouch for Franck von Franckenau’s Oster-Hase, I can’t vouch for the other critters."
If this is true, then the order goes Easter --> secular/Germanic traditions rather than traditions --> Easter. But this is not my area of expertise and I am open to evidence that the r/AskHistorians person quoted above is wrong.
Also why they celebrate the birth of Jesus around the winter solstice. Surprise, those pagan rites were all about the church this whole time!
Christmas trees are not a pagan invention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m41KXS-LWsY
Didn’t watch the video, but clicked on the account page and all of their videos are nuts…
Pagans worshipped evergreens long before Christianity was invented.
The biggest argument that they’re not pagan is “German Christians did it…” Which completely ignored they didn’t start doing it as Christians, they just never stopped once they became Christian
Obviously a bunch of religious people are going to make up illogical excuses about how it’s not just a ripoff.
That doesn’t we listen to them anymore than Scientologists.
Religion for breakfast channel is nuts? How about you look at the description or just watch the video cause he does cite sources
I mean, the first thumbnail was something about how you can become immortal thru a religion…
I didn’t look much deeper than that, if someone has an article, I’ll read that.
But I’m not going to watch a random YouTube video
You can read this if you want. It’s one of the sources for the video. Religion for Breakfast is a scholar with a PHD in religous studies; hardly nuts.
this
Well…
I know why you hide the link:
https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2018/12/concerning-yule.html?m=1
It’s a blog that has screenshots from twitter…
None of that changes anything I’ve already said.
Because the pagans were already there and the church was built to convert them.
It’s harder to maintain a spiritual monopoly if you allow other games to be played in town. And since you’re kicking them out, why not keep their land instead of trying to haggle with someone else for a deed?
Building a religious site on top of an existing religious site to supplant that god or religion with another is a common strategy all throughout history all over the world, there is nothing particular to Europe or Christianity about it.
Romans did it to Greek gods, Muslims did it to Christian churches and Hindu temples. Buddhists did it to Taoist temples.
It’s just how religions operate.
romans co-opted most of the greek gods, they dint entirely supplant them.
Pretty self explanatory don’t you think? People can’t use their old religious sites if you literally demolish them and build your own there.
Christianity have never liked competition.
Because Christianity spread through Europe by Roman conquest & co-opting the local Gods into the fold was their thing. Have you seen the Greek pantheon?
Churches are still built (from time to time) and I don’t think anyone still cares to search for a Pagan ritual site for each new construction.
The church oppression of pagans was so strong that when I tried to learn about the Slavic pagan myths, the book just said that most of it is guessing and approximation, because not enough sources survived the “burning love and compassion” of the Christian church.
Reminds me of this bit by Eddie Izzard except replace flags with churches.
Dis mine now.
This is really interesting. Thank you for resharing it.
“because our god can beat up your god!” - christians (probably)
Control.
Well, they went and started saying antisemitic shit and got upset with push back.
Edit: Lol at the downvotes. No seriously the original poster of this question went antisemitic and downvoters are upset that I gave context. Or are you all sock puppets?
I think most misunderstood. I had no idea what your were talking about until your edit lol.
speedstriker858@lemmy.zip is sock puppet and most likely the rest are too.







