In many parts of Europe, it’s common for workers to take off weeks at a time, especially during the summer. Envious Americans say it’s time for the U.S. to follow suit.
Some 66% of U.S. workers say companies should adopt extended vacation policies, like a month off in August, in their workplaces, according to a Morning Consult survey of 1,047 U.S. adults.
Approximately 50% of voters will vote for a political party that views any such reform as communism.
It’s actually quite a bit less than 50%, but their votes have a bigger impact because of a broken system.
sure, but effectively they deadlock the system and prevent any structural reform. Also, national polling currently has close to 50% of the voting population supporting a trump second term. We can’t even get the Democratic Party to support universal public healthcare. The ideological delusion, the willingness of the people to support a system that makes their lives anxious and miserable, cuts across both political parties as well as the general population.
We’re heading through a dry county, and for political reasons it’s a very long, narrow county. So I cannot serve alcohol until we’re through.
-King of the Hill
So much this. We have an antiquated and ridiculous system that gives the regressives far, far too much of a voice.
Socialism is a very nice son of rationalism. It is time for a review
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That’s because politicians are so far separated from the average American. Some of them are so old and senile and have been in power so long, they don’t even realize how bad it is for the average American, and on top of that, because they don’t think it’s as bad as it is, they don’t care.
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We don’t have these things because 50% of the population is dumb as bricks and is voting against their own interest.
It’s not even 50% tits our fucked up districts, and also it’s gotten like this because of legislation to defund education. But younger voters are becoming more informed, change can happen. It will take effort and time though.
Hey man if there’s one thing the defunded schools taught me, it’s that America is the greatest country in the universe.
So I stood up and told that teaching lady, “the only letters I need to know are U, S, and A!”
It’s the money in politics. Doesn’t matter how young or old the politicians are.
I’d say it depends but the older ones are more likely to be influenced by money
I have always wished that requiring congressmen work a minimum wage job in their district that they have to look for and apply to like the rest of us while out of session would do anything. Deal with some Karens to humble them properly.
No. It’s because the constitution effective abolishes democracy, by ensuring a two-party system.
In the US democracy is limited to one coin toss worth of decision making once every four years. Add to that that their first-to-the-post system eliminates all election power to non-swing-states, that means ~40 of the states have no democratic input at all, and the rest has up to 15 bit worth of democratic input over their whole life time.
Thus politicians have nothing to fear at all. They mess up, who cares? It’s gonna be their turn after the next term limit anyway.
The Constitution doesn’t employ a 2 party system and actually our founding fathers were against it. It has been put in place since then. I do think the electoral college system does cause issues though. We need a ranked choice system or something else where all votes have some value.
The overwhelming majority of working class adults want these things, but also the overwhelming majority of working class adults also work for large corporations who do not want these things (because it costs them money/profits). Guess who has more money to buy off politicians? Walmart/Amazon/Target would work together to never let these beneficial policies go through congress. It would be worth it to them to spend literal billions to prevent it, because it would cost them billions in the long run.
The sad reality is we don’t really live in a democracy. It’s an oligarchy that allows us to think we are in control.
I have never understood why Americans doesn’t have trade union?
Like in Denmark we have trade unions where a working area is united like the health care area, have “FOA” there is trading “time off” payment and so on, for all in this area.?
There are trade unions in the USA but the cultural difference compared to in a Scandinavian country is very striking, both in terms of American vs Scandinavians unions themselves but also their support. It would surprise many Scandinavians to learn that many Americans don’t even want trade unions because it’s for example commonly seen as that they interfere with career paths, promoting seniority at the cost of new blood or keep the wages low because individual wages can be affected.
I think the culture collision here is that the whole idea behind unions in Scandinavia is to offer a stronger collective voice and bargaining actor to increase wages and other subjects that improves the standards and quality of life / motivation of their employees so that the relationship between the work place and the individual is less asymmetrical.
But it’s been a long journey and it still is even if unionizing in USA has seen an uptick in debates lately, because USA has a radical and capitalistic history where there are loud and influential voices that even asking for basic rights on a job can be seen as “greed” and the company looks for someone being less of a bother and not asking these questions instead. All due to weak unions, of course. Otherwise the company would of course lose too much in employee skills by excluding everyone having these demands (and already being union members) like the situation here in Scandinavia where this by consequence is simply not an option.
This is at least my two cents of this entire situation from the “outside” also in Europe, please correct me if I’m wrong…
That’s because Americans have no say in these issues. They’re brainwashed (well, 1/2 is) to think those things are sOciAliSm, which apparently is bad despite many voters having socialized medicine that they love. It’s the American way, convincing people that what they want is not in their best interest.
I would say th other half is brainwashed too, your 2 party system sucks. Things won’t get better if you have no choice in elections
There is no party of red and party of blue. It’s all a single party of green. And it’s not named after the color of trees.
Edit: Green is the color of money.
the color of …grass?
Why green?
Land of the free, amirite?
Land of the free…to be manipulated.
The think tanks funded by rich people saying “They want to take away your guns/cows/statues etc” and “unions suck” are better at this than we are.
We can want all we want, but a whole pile of the media is owned by the 1% and what they want is the status quo.
Conservatism is literally, don’t change anything.
Conservatism is literally, don’t change anything.
Not true. They also like regression.
Make America like the 1950s.
I’ll take the higher tax rates on the highest brackets from the 1950s, but I’d rather do without the racism.
MAke America Tax the Rich Again.
The only way to vote for these issues is to vote to form a union.
Because the American Oligarchy do nothing to actually improve the lives of the average person and deflect, blame, and fear monger against the other party to distract from their own corruption. It’s both sides of the political spectrum in this country and it’s getting pretty old.
Racism and bigotry are a hell of a drug.
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everyone wants it when you survey people that want it
(not that i disagree)
51% support slower employee response time outside of work hours
Uh, what? That does not compute. Either it’s work, or it is not work (and I don’t respond to anything, and don’t get contacted in the first place)
If you’re a skilled salaried worker the law doesn’t really consider you to have work hours. Furthermore, you aren’t required to be compensated for time you are on-call unless you are required to physically be present.
US labor laws are truly horrifying if you start asking yourself a few “what-ifs.” The entire system is built on good faith.
“Salaried worker” over here means just that you’re being paid for fixed, regular working hours - typically something like 37.5 or 40 hours per week. Anything on top of that is overtime, which needs to be compensated either in time off, or paid out.
On call rules also vary a lot by country, but typical it’s something like being paid 20-25% of your regular hourly wage while on call, with overtime pay when you’re taking a call.
I’ll never forget at my first job once I moved to Europe, boss reminded me to take my vacation days. “Yeah, I’m hourly, not salary, what vacation days?”
Yes, holiday pay/leave is accrued for casual hourly workers too, by law.
That said, when I switched to salary, off in lieu is a sticky loophole, not sure if it was legal but one place would wipe any leftover OIL on 31 Dec with no payout, so it was on you to take it, which wasn’t always possible (pay and time off is better, but work/life balance can be just as F-ed in Europe).
Yes, holidays can, by law, be reset on Jan 1st.
However, the company needs to have reminded you that it will, and also allow you to actually take the time off.
If you have 30 days on December 1st, then they need to allow you to either take the days forward into the year or take it in December.
one place would wipe any leftover OIL on 31 Dec with no payout
“Use it or lose it” policies are dumb.
We have salary exempt and salary non-exempt in the US. The exempt part being overtime pay.
Salary exempt would be jobs like managers who may have to work outside of normal hours to ensure continuity of the business. Such as making arrangements for sick workers.calling out.
Salary non-exempt are for positions in which they are paid a set work week but their function does not have unplanned work outside of their normal hours. So things like HR or accounting may be paid salary, but there really is no reason for something to come up outside of their work day. These people should be clocking in and out or at least capturing their time in some manner, because if they do end up working greater than 40 hours a week they are entitled to overtime pay.
I work in engineering. Every job I’ve ever had has been overtime exempt. Shit sucks.
I work in IT. I’m exempt too. :(
Then I guess a few companies I’ve worked for are breaking the law… Go figure. Our non exempt employees wouldn’t get overtime, they just worked for free if the were needed to work longer hours… Yay murica… Coincidentally those companies didn’t have their salaried employees clock in or out
Oh yeah. Wage theft accounts for more stolen dollars than any other form of theft.
Where is “over here”?
Pretty much all of the EU, at least - country specific regulations vary, but the basic framework is based on EU regulations.
Yep can confirm everything you stated.
Source: am from Europe
Then don’t vote for Republicans.
30ish percent of Americans identify as Republican (depending on the poll), so these types of questions are always ~66% of Americans in support
But many independent voters who want these policies vote for Republicans. If they want these policies, voting for Republicans will not get them there.
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These things require 60 votes in the Senate and approval in the House. Republicans are blocking them in both.
Nominally in power. In reality Congress is deadlocked and has been since his term started,and the USSC has aggressively blocked just about everything he has attempted via executive orders.
We need a lot more center left democrats in office, at the state and federal level, to get any significant reforms passed. That also means getting the geriatric Clinton era neoliberal democrats out of office.
I’ve worked in companies with a presence in various European countries over my career. Whether or not everyone takes Summer leave at the same time very much depends on the company, and the country. I specifically remember working with a Finnish contractor firm who planned to have no billable time available at all in August, from anyone. But our offices in France and elsewhere never fully shut down in August, they were just very lightly staffed. Everyone took some multi-week summer holiday, just not the whole place at once.
It’s not just summer leave, either. There are people all over the world having kids and going out on maternity (or even paternity!) leave for months at a time. When my wife and I had our kids in the US, I didn’t get any extra paternity leave, and just used saved-up PTO. I particularly remember that my wife had to stay in the hospital for a bit after my first kid was born, so the two weeks I had saved up flew by in a flash. I recall my boss strongly encouraging me to dial in to a conference call on that last PTO day, and when I did his boss lashed into me for taking so much time off. I started sending out resumes shortly after.
On the other hand, when the Europeans I worked with later got their summer or parental leave, their Project Managers just dealt with it, and if it meant their schedules had to slip, they slipped, no temper tantrums required. And I think that is the key difference. American bosses and PMs are much more likely to get away with assigning blame for schedule slips downward, perhaps because not as many people are unionized.
Many types of workers in scandinavia is not as heavily unionized either. Perhaps the ones that are not, enjoy a form of herd immunity from worker abuse from the ones that are.
This is exactly why every worker should be supporting unions even if their industry doesn’t have one. Rising tides and all that.
There’s a lot of unionisation. Further, there’s industry-wide collective agreements, which pretty much do the herd immunity thing.
Just an anecdote related to the first part of what you said: I’m in the US, PTO season seems to be December at my company. Both because some portion of people’s PTO hours will expire at the end of the year, and obviously because of being adjacent to Christmas and new year.
Depending on the country, there aren’t that many people in unions. Most countries in the EU (not Europe in general) have laws that protect the workers better than workers in the USA. The result is a different work culture.
Which is often still the result of strong union actions in the past, even if only 20 or 30 % are currently unionised.
Living in EU, mid thirties, full time office job getting about 33 days off per year all together. Max 4 weeks in a row tho, and must match schedules with colleagues so all keeps on running, no full closing of offices. The older you get, the more vacation days you get. Older colleagues complain they have too much holidays…
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34% of Americans responded “grind my body into the ground, capitalism daddy”
I don’t think they even responded, their mouth were probably full.
The other 34% of adults surveyed were middle management.
Or were part of the base so trained as to kneejerk into thinking that sounds like “Communism”.
Who are the other 34%?? Who is like “yeah idk a consecutive 30 days off every summer actually, legitimately sounds BAD to me”?
European here. Like me, many people from the poorer european countries don’t have any place to go on vacations in august. Everything is expensive and there’s always a rush to booking. For someone who doesn’t have a “family summer house” and can’t afford to rent a place in august, mandatory august vacations (like it’s usual here) is just a waste of vacations. Too hot and no place cool to go. Also, august is typically the month where everything is flooded with small children. If you’re not too fond of that either, then august is really the worst month to be on vacations. ALSO, it’s lovely to work in august, because usually your workplace has AC and most of your colleagues are hundreds of kms away, trying to buy a melted ice-cream for 40min in a crowded beach.
Couldn’t you just stay home and fuck around and just not work?
You missed the part about having AC at work.
Eh I ignored that one because I don’t know how to respond. I live in the south (of the United States) in an attic apartment. With my ac I can’t get it below 80 degrees fahrenheit inside and if I don’t turn the ac on it is well above ambient temperature, 100 plus degrees.
I know that AC should be a luxury but it is quickly becoming a requirement. I don’t know how to help on that front
Uh, lots actually. People who self identify with work, and the shitty management class who are workaholics.
Also, the self employed and small business owner who never gets vacation time.
As a self employed small business owner, “What are weekends and work hours?”
As an employee, “Couple weeks off sounds great!”
Three possibilities. a) people who bought into the propaganda that being exploited by your employer means you’re more dedicated. b) the temporarily embarrassed millionaire effect. They’re willing to take the exploitation on the off chance they might be the one exploiting people in the future. c) they already are the ones exploiting people.
There’s also people that recognize that a “summers off” program like this wouldn’t affect significant portions of the workforce. Retail and dining workers wouldn’t get this time off. Medical workers wouldn’t get this time off. Package handlers wouldn’t get this time off.
The divide between “work-from-home” and “essential” and those who got laid off completely during the pandemic opened a lot of eyes to how unfair different types of employment are. I can see plenty of workers saying they don’t want white collar office jockeys taking yet another advantage that service workers will never have access to.
“sounds like COMMUNISM to me for sure buddy !”
It’s not too surprising that a country that had a civil war over ‘employment laws’ is a bad place to work.
Why do 34% of Americans not want paid time off work?
Because they will think of someone else who “doesn’t deserve it” getting it and mald.
Mald?
portmanteau of mad and go bald
be so mad they go bald
That sounds pretty mad!
Something, something socialism is bad.
Realistically, they are probably the small (and large) business owners that will have to pay for a month off work for their employees.
some people are that bad of workalohics. never take time off and think others who do are weak
the myth of a meritocracy strikes again
I’m the kind of person that brings my work laptop on vacation and it’s because I love what I do, not because I think people who don’t do that are weak.
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If you think voting will get you out of this, my american friend, you are wrong. You need a revolution.
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I agree with everything that you just said. But revolutions are not led by a single individual, but by organizing collectivelly. I simplified my reply to your original post, and I apologize for that. What I originally meant was that voting will not change anything. You need radical change. And yes, that will shed blood. But houseless people, minorities, they are already bleeding. The alternative is just to vote? To go to marches? Protest?
Nah, organization and fight against capital.
They have dropped that “take a month off” thing like it’s some crazy regular thing that happens.
I don’t know about the rest of Europe, but in the UK you normally get 25 to 30 days of Annual Leave, companies often give extra days for long term or exceptional service, some have salary sacrifice options to buy more. Where I work you can even win some in charity raffles. The expectation is that you book them in advance with your boss when you want to use them.
If you want to save it all and take a month off then so long as the boss is okay with it, then off you go. But you won’t have any leave days for the rest of the year.
That’s double the amount of time off I have here in the U.S.
And I only get a week of paid sick days, which I’ve already used up due to an illness which hasn’t even been properly diagnosed yet.
I even have to make up time if I go to the doctor.
In the UK the government mandates that your employer pay you whats called statutory sick pay for up to 28 week should the illness require it, which is a minimum of £109 a week.
In addition, your continued employment by the company is protected and they cannot fire you for being sick.
In reality the company will often support staff members for much longer if needed. That’s just how things are expected to be. I’ve had a member of my team go on very long term sick with leukemia and he was supported by the company for over 4 years while he was in and out of hospital, letting him work part time and from home when he needed to, at his discretion.
Expectations on companies here and the protections offered to worked in regards to thier employment and unfair dismissal situations puts the “land off the free” to shame
Not surprised. I would honestly move there tomorrow (my father was English and I was born before the 1980s cutoff, so I could get citizenship), but I don’t want to abandon my dogs.
Why not take the dogs with you, if that is „all“?
Well, I don’t know UK law, but generally that means putting the dogs in quarantine for months and I don’t want to do that to them.
Yep - it’s a tired misconception I first encountered working for an American 20 odd years ago.
While it’s true that it’s difficult to get much out of France Spain and especially Italy in august - it’s because it’s holiday season - not because everyone is gone for a whole month
Cool, I get zero sick days and get paid a lump sum “vacation” bonus every year equivalent to one week’s salary.
I get no real paid time off otherwise
Strike
25 days off is 5 weeks (because days off would only be the work days.) That’s over a month.
Most positions in the US seem to give 10 days of annual leave a year. Some may also include sick pay as well.
It’s even more than 5 weeks if you take days off adjacent to bank holidays. One can easily stretch it to 6+ in many countries.
I don’t think its a Federal requirement to offer employees any vacation or sick leave in the US. For many office jobs you have to earn leave time over the course of months or years - it’s not unheard of to have zero leave time the first six months of employment.
Same in France.
25 to 30 days of annual leave is unheard of in the US. And it translates to 5-6 weeks, which is well over a month. It’s common in a lot of European countries to take 4 of those weeks off in a single continuous summer break, usually August (some prefer July to avoid the August crowds). Yes, there’s a misconception that everyone in Europe takes August off, it’s ultimately up to each individual how they allocate their days off, but there are companies that do assume everyone will take August off and all but shut down during that month.
Do you get paid during your month off?
Of course.
In Finland you get paid 1.5x your normal monthly salary in the month you are in vacation. History of it is that to ensure you continue working after the vacation.
Edit: it is not in the law, it is just something that unions have negotiated
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If you want to save it all and take a month off then so long as the boss is okay with it
Yeah, most bosses aren’t ok with that.
Where I am now I get two consecutive weeks max
It’s sad. The real issue is an odd application of American capitalism and, believe it or not, unions. Yes, those same people that take credit for the 40 hour workweek and weekends prevented guaranteed vacation benefits.
Back in the New Deal when so many benefits were being codified, the unions began lobbying against going too far. The reason was their fear that if employers were forced by law to offer too good of benefits, then people would have no reason to join a union.
Of course, union membership has since collapsed, so we are now all stuck with the fallout and employers thinking 2-3 weeks of PTO is somehow enough. And never mind that as it turns out, European nations generally have higher union membership anyway.
Here is a source: https://www.npr.org/2023/08/17/1194467863/europe-vacation-holiday-paid-time-off
German here: I have yet to witness these “European-style” vacations mentioned in the post title.
Most workplaces seem to frown at people taking >2 consecutive weeks of vacation, esp. if they don’t have kids and do it in main travel season / during school holidays. Handing in ~3 weeks of holidays often at least needs some kind of explanation to the team-lead, e.g. “I have school kids who have their summer holidays and we need to keep them busy until school starts again.”
I have yet to see a single company going easy on someone saying “I’ll be off all of August KTHXBYE”.
I work in IT for a major telecom provider in Scandinavia, and almost everyone takes 3 weeks summer vacation, mostly at the same time.
Management recommends taking as much as possible over the summer, as we have a 5-6 week “slow period” when people’s 3 weeks don’t align.
Other than that, it’s common to just take the rest during other school holidays.
We get 6 weeks by default and earn our way up to 7 weeks after 5 years.
German here as well - this hasn’t been an issue in any company I’ve worked so far, all didn’t have an issue with 3+ weeks.
I’m glad to hear it’s not an issue in your experience / industry.
Which gets into an entirely separate (though related) issue, where workers with children get benefits and accommodations that childless workers don’t.
Sometimes it’s overt and blatant like in your case, others, it’s more limited to interactions and relationships.
A few jobs ago, I worked in a small office where the owner was good about approving PTO, but didn’t want more than one person in any given dept out at the same time (ridiculous, but that’s how he was).
I planned a vacation of a long weekend one summer and got my PTO approved in like February for this long weekend in June.
Literally 3 weeks before, this lady I worked with tells me that I “need to reschedule my PTO”.
After looking into it, I learn that what’s really going on is that she wanted to take a week long vacation with her kids since they’d be off for the summer, and one of my days overlapped with the week she wanted to take.
I refused, saying that my friends and I had already made arrangements.
And then she blew it up, in the office in front of everyone, and told me how I was being so rude and mean and inconsiderate, that I could go and do things whenever I liked because I didn’t have kids…and that I “just didn’t get it” and could never possibly understand how hard her life was because I didn’t have kids.
I assumed that my boss and other coworkers would see how ridiculous she was, but while they mostly kept quiet, the ones who did speak up actually did think I was being unreasonable for not canceling my vacation to trade with her, seeing my plans as less than hers, just because she had kids.
I learned to get comfortable with coworkers thinking I was an asshole, though, and enjoyed every moment of that getaway.
Workers with children should get benefits childless workers don’t. They need them.
Rescheduling of PTO shouldn’t happen tho. That was on your boss to catch and mitigate.
I don’t know about giving extra benefits to workers with children. Certainly, workers with children should be given what they need to have a healthy work/life/family balance but I don’t think workers without kids should be denied those same opportunities just because they chose to live their personal life differently. I think workers in the same role should be equally compensated with all of the same benefits and opportunities which then can be utilized as best suits their personal situation.
I don’t see how a worker without kids is harmed here. This seems like a “I dont feel like we should kick puppies” argument - no one is insisting we kick these metaphorical puppies
The ideal baseline of all workers should be plenty adequate for everyone, regardless of marital status.
And yet workers with children need, at minimum, things like FMLA
I do not agree that everyone’s baseline is or should be the same.
Why should only workers with children get FMLA? Why can’t someone caring for their parents get the same?
That’s what GP meant.
They should all get the same amount of benefits, though possibly differing in kind.
Having children nowadays is a choice, not something beyond people’s control (like a disability), and people shouldn’t be getting extra rewards from work for making choices which have nothing to do with work.
It would be massivelly unfair to those who made a personal choice not to have kids to be de facto discriminated against because of that.
It’s not unfair. Your benefits include bing significantly wealthier and having more free time. Flexible time off for children isn’t some unreasonable ask.
While I agree that flexible time off for children isn’t a big ask, it’s disingenuous to say that childreee people are somehow not deserving of those same accommodations because they have more money and free time. First off, you don’t know someone’s personal or financial situation. They could be helping to support their aging parents or something. And second, it’s a choice to be a parent or not. If I go out and buy a Bugatti I don’t therefore deserve to have some special treatment from my job. And while kids are obviously more important to accommodate than a lot of other things (like cars, lol) they don’t somehow make the parents extra super special because they have a FaMiLy. Everyone has a family!
Reality is everyone needs those kinds of accommodations sometimes and employers should realize that employees are human with lives outside work.
My prior gig, all of our EU people took like 3-4 weeks off at a time. Probably industry-related?
in some sectors, like construction, they just all have to take summer holiday together. That’s usually like 2 consecutive weeks.
Most sectors do not tho. Depending on the sector and the specific job, they just set an email autoreply: hi, i’m chilling by the pool rn, if it’s urgent ask colleague x who is a bit informed about what i normally do and they should be able to help you, (we’ll clean up the mess when i’m back)
This is cool info and fills in some gaps I had. Thank you!
Could also be confusing to some as I remember a co-worker (American BTW) that he thought Sweden was part of the EU and that was the reason why the whole country would go on vacation on the month of July for the entirety of the month.
Frankly I think the EU should name itself the United States of Eurasia and just be America 2 But This Time More European but then I also use inches so wtf do I know.
You guys have a lot of countries.
less than you guys have states.
Yes but they’re all America (uh… In theory) so we can all just pretend it’s one which is good, because a lot of us can’t identify every US state on a blank map.
I think it really depends on the place you’re working. My company honestly encourages us to take all of our leave in one chunk, because it’s easier to plan with. At least you should take one week at a time. I personally don’t like it though. I like looking forward to having a few days off every month. Having a whole month off and then working troughout the year is not for me.
I work in the automotive industry in the US, but we regularly interact with German suppliers (software and hardware). In my experience, in August especially it seems like half of their office is just out the entire month. I’m sure there’s tons of industries where that isn’t the case, though.
Lol as an American I feel uncomfortable putting in more than 2 consecutive DAYS in a row and I’m salaried, not a service worker or anything. I can’t even imagine having 2 weeks off. I’ve only been able to manage that once in my adult life during one of my transitions to a new company.
I feel for you! Here in Sweden we are allowed by law to take 4 consecutive weeks during the summer (June, July, August) but we don’t have to if we want to use it sometime else during the year, we usually start with 25 vacation days and need to use 20 of them before we get new days (happens in April for some reason I don’t know) and we can save all days above 20, so when/if you get more days you can save more as well. (So if you have 30 days, you can save 10 every year but there is a limit on how long you can save them IIRC).
Here in England there’s a guy I work with who’s taking six months off soon to go to Thailand. Thing is, we’re working for the local authority and they’re pretty good about holidays and sick pay because the wages aren’t very competitive and they need to retain staff.
