If I ignore/block them, it allows them to continue unchallenged. I hate getting into it with them, since they are a baseline idiot.
I guess that’s it. I saw a person with a 6 month account spouting garbage, was gonna block but thought perhaps that wasn’t morally responsible. Wondering what the options were.
i find this very satisfying: gently disagreeing with them via a short single positive message like “gay people do deserve respect”, then letting them throw a very lengthy, time-invested tantrum before gently and completely disagreeing with their comment with another short sentence, over and over until they get tired.
i find that both very funny and I’m putting out positive messages that negate their bigotry without too much time or effort.
that’s just if you have the time and inclination to engage, you aren’t morally obligated to subject yourself to abusive behavior.
if it’s real bad, they’re probably violating a rule, and reporting them will get them banned
Ooo, that’s good.
I’m going to post this idea by agent_nycto, because it’s another good way to deal with them, especially if you run into them IRL:
I don’t think you should be quiet, it makes them feel like everyone is agreeing with them and makes everyone miserable. Time to introduce you to my favorite game to play with conservatives, Politics Judo!
So you hear them rant about a thing. Some dumbass talking point. Let’s use gun control. It’s pretty easy to know in advance what the talking points are since they never shut up and parrot the same problem and solution over and over. “Shouldn’t take guns, it’s a mental problem not a gun problem”.
Things are basically boiled down to a problem and a solution. A lot of people try to convince people that the problem isn’t what people think it is, and that’s hard to do. Even if they are just misinformed, it feels like trying to dismiss their fears.
So what you do is you agree with the problem, then use lefty talking points as the solution.
“Oh yeah, gun violence is pretty bad! And I love the Constitution, we shouldn’t mess with that!” (Use small words and also throw in some patriotism, makes them feel like you’re on their side. You want to sound like a right wing media con artist) “so instead of taking guns away, we should instead start having more, free, mental health care in this country. Since it’s a mental health problem and these people are crazy, that is the solution that makes the most sense!” (Don’t try to get them to agree to your solution, just state it as the obvious one)
It becomes weaponized cognitive dissonance. Their brains fry because you said the things you should to agree with them, flagged yourself as an ally, but then said the thing they were told is the bad and shouldn’t want.
If they try to argue with your solution, rinse and repeat to a different talking point. “Oh yeah it might cost more, and we shouldn’t have to pay more for it, so we should get the rich people who are screwing average hard working Americans over by not paying taxes to do that. We should shut down tax loopholes and increase funding to the IRS so they can go after them instead of the little guy”
Always sound like you’re agreeing with them, but giving solutions that they disagree with that seem to be off topic but are related.
A good thing about this approach is you’re not wasting your time (much). It doesn’t matter if they’re trolling for attention or entertainment if you remain passive/neutral and give them so little to work with.
Imagine instead giving them an originally-written 200 word argument and then they just reply “didnt read” - wasted your time on a bad faith prank. (that said - perhaps your audience isn’t the troll, but rather, the lurkers. I would only consider putting in effort if the comment isn’t being downvoted to the bottom holding an anchor)
Did you report this person? Racists are usually quickly dispensed with, because if they’re allowed to continue unchallenged then this will become a Nazi bar.
For sure, it’s great to be in communities like ours and theirs where staff actually boot them all out, and it’s also useful to know tactics for treating those people if they’re in places which idealistically believe in free speech more than saving lives and stuff. Luckily I can’t think of any active instances which don’t have basic anti-bigotry rules, but it’s entirely possible for one to federate and not earn a full-instance ban, at least from the more liberal instances. I don’t think it’s enough to say ‘skill issue don’t use a bad instance’, for example Wolfballs remained in the scene for a while until they were finally considered too rabid for most instances to tolerate.
You’re not gonna change their mind.
You’d be better spending your time breaking a brick wall with your skull.
Fuck em. Block em.
Sometimes, it’s not about changing their mind, but influencing the many others who are less certain in their beliefs who are just reading along.
In that case, it’s better to just make a top-level comment that’s far more likely to be read than a response 4 replies deep in an insufferable debate. You don’t continue the chess game for the sake of spectators once the pigeon has shat all over the board and knocked the pieces on the ground repeatedly. They’re just wasting your time at that point, which for most of them is their only goal in the first place.
Also, people vastly overestimate how many people are actually going to read an argument between two online people. Only the most chronically online of redditors read that shit. Most people find it very off-putting, and you actually risk losing credibility if you continue to engage. (Said as someone who has very much and repeatedly made the error of continuing to engage.)
If someone can be convinced into racism and hatred they were predisposed to assholery anyway.
Fair though.
Suppose I am too jaded to entertain them anymore. Can only hear so much before entertaining the nonsense wears on my mental.
how is blocking someone helping influence other people? youre the only human the block affects. its no different than ignoring them.
I think they mean not letting the ideas go unchallenged. If someone is reading through and sees a bunch of Nazis posting hate all up somewhere with no one else saying anything, they might assume that sort of behavior is just tacitly accepted and influence their perception of the community as a whole.
Yep.
I’m here for entertainment, as I assume most people are. If seeing that sort of rhetoric is a negative to you, block it. Marie Kondo your online life and yeet anything out the window that doesn’t spark joy. Put your anti-MAGA efforts towards improving your IRL community where you don’t have to futilely battle pseudonymous trolls.
But “all that is required for evil to prosper is that good men do nothing?” Or something?
That’s why I said this part
Put your anti-MAGA efforts towards improving your IRL community where you don’t have to futilely battle pseudonymous trolls.
Edit: that was a little blunt. To elaborate, I don’t engage everyone I see in the grocery store wearing a MAGA hat. I don’t knock on the door of everyone flying a Trump flag. I don’t engage the white nationalist ass hat spouting off in the bar. We pick our battles based on many factors, including personal safety and well being. Find a way to help that actually does something and makes you feel good about it.
Well said!
Very rarely do people like this actually want to discuss why they are the way they are. They don’t care about your opinion, and will actively react negatively to any push back. Of course, you can always block them, but there is another choice
Politely ask them to snap a pic of their hog and post it.
You’ve actually found right leaning people on Lemmie? I thought they were either shoved out, bullied out or pushed out or just given up and left and went somewhere else.
More of a white-supremist/anti-LGBTQ/pro-Israel mashup.
But left-leaning, so they got that going for them.
Left-leaning by what definition?
I’m not saying that as a challenge, I’m legitimately curious what interpretation of ‘left’ tolerates those ideas. Even a bigot with economically social ideas (like a Strassertite) is typically considered ‘right-wing’.
Seemed to hate the current administration, and usa policies, but then they were German so who knows.
That’s, uh, not really left leaning… is it?
I thought they were either shoved out, bullied out or pushed
That’s not something we should be trying for though. Wouldn’t you be mad if suddenly conservatives came on and said that same thing about left-leaning people?!
nazis are not welcome here.
Good thing I’m not a nazi then.
Hope you’re doing your part to make nazis feel unwelcome.
I don’t know any nazis, but I’ve never condoned nor would I ever condone them. Are you around a bunch of nazis? Where do you live?!
I don’t know any nazis, but I’ve never condoned nor would I ever condone them.
Sure. Let’s go with that.
Are you around a bunch of nazis? Where do you live?!
Not anymore. I left reddit. I don’t want lemmy becoming like reddit.
Good for you! I haven’t come across any Nazis here yet. Thanks for the warning.
Wouldn’t you be mad if suddenly conservatives came on and said that same thing about left-leaning people?!
It’s less about whether I’d feel mad, and more about how that materially affects our community. Left-leaning people are trying to make communities which allow all peoples (but not all ideas, like exterminating races and objectifying sexes), while plenty of conservatives (I don’t think the word ‘conservative’ truly applies, but many identify as conservative) are trying to exclude peoples they consider undesirables. If you wanted, you can walk into an anarcho-communist or M-L organization and, as long as you don’t offend them with any provoking symbols or offensive ideas, be welcomed. Not everyone can do the same in a reactionary community. So I don’t think it’s fair to equivocate anti-rightism with anti-leftism. (and, as a side note, if we want to talk about the rare ultra-liberalist (‘Libertarian’) free-speech everyone-welcome scenario, Lemmy already went through that with Wolfballs a few years back - their admin shut it down when they eventually realized they’d created a Nazi bar and that the WNs weren’t just being dumb and offensive as a joke.)
Furthermore, in the context of Lemmy overall, it was created by communists who were leaving reddit to avoid what you described:
are trying to exclude peoples they consider undesirables
Which is exactly what you and Lemmy are doing by saying conservatives are not welcome here. They are un-desired…ala undesirable. Can’t you see the irony of what you are saying?!
Take what you wrote and switch the words around. Change all the liberal words to Repubiclan. Then stand back and read it. Def sounds EXACTLY like how you all assume republicans talk and exclude.
They are un-desired…ala undesirable.
Well, yes. It’s why conservatives recruit incels.
So there are no liberal incels?!
Looks like I touched a nerve.
You haven’t touched a nerve at all. I simply replied to your question. Is replying to a question or comment “touching a nerve”?!
They are un-desired…ala undesirable.
No, their politics are unwanted. That’s a huge difference, it’s absurd to treat them as equal.
When I used the term ‘undesirables’, I didn’t mean literally ‘not desired’. I meant it in the context that reactionaries like NSDAP (Nazi Germany) and their modern fans use it - it referred to peoples like Slavs, Romani, Jews, black peoples, people with disabilities, homosexuals and ideological opponents, and more[1]. People, just because of their lineage, were considered subhuman (Untermensch) and sent to be deported or exterminated. And it’s absolutely applicable to the section of modern US conservatives (including their national leaders) who are currently embracing similar oppression of selected races and conditions. That’s the allusion I was making with the borrowed term ‘undersirables’, not just a person who is being offensive, starting fights and told to leave.
Identifying politically is a choice. One can refine their political positions, or even just be diplomatic and respectful, at any time, by choice. It’s very easy.
Being identified as a race, sex, or other similar category, is not a choice. So if you feel excluded because you named your account after two racist cunts and openly identify as ‘conservative’ in an anti-racist space, that’s something you can easily choose not to do if you actually want to be included. Don’t expect us to take you seriously when you compare that to the Republic party’s form of exclusion, oppressing people for how they were born, not how they choose to act in a society.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany, introduction, paragraph 3 and more ↩︎
No, their politics are unwanted. That’s a huge difference, it’s absurd to treat them as equal.
So because someones politics are different than yours, they shouldn’t be treated as equal. Hmmmm…
Now image a republican saying that about democrats. Imagine your outrage. LMAO
See, regardless of what Lemmy says, not every republican is a Nazi. This is why you all lost the election. Because you don’t account for how many different kinds of republicans there are.
And you’ll lose the next one if ya don’t wake up.
So because someones politics are different than yours
No.
Stopped reading there. If you’re just going to invent strawman arguments no-one said, instead of trying to read and reply to what I wrote, why even talk with you?
Stopped reading there. If you’re just going to invent strawman arguments no-one said
Guy, you literally said: “No, their politics are unwanted.”
Which means they are different than yours. I mean, hey you are free to stop reading. Def nothing says we have to have a conversation.
But unwanted politics means they are different than yours. Not sure why you found that so controversial.
I’m not gonna change your mind. You’re not gonna change my mind. And that’s ok. Carry on your way, and I’ll go mine.
Would never say it’s something we should be trying for.
I meant Lemmy as a whole. And I agree with you that we shouldn’t be trying for that. I personally have been bullied and there have been plenty of attempts to push me out–all because I post links to news articles that have conservative points of view. Even when it’s AP News, I get bullied. lol
I personally have been bullied and there have been plenty of attempts to push me out–all because I post links to news articles that have conservative points of view.
Did not everyone immediately agree with you and applaud?
Poor thing.
I have never expected people to immediately agree with me or applaud. But diversity of opinion and thought is supposed the be the cornerstone of Democratic values. But it’s not. Not at all. I have seen more bullying and hate in the name of Democratic values here on Lemmy than anywhere else in my entire life. LMAO
I have seen more bullying and hate in the name of Democratic values
I doubt you would see that unless you were opposing Democratic values. Shit, you should see what happens if you suggest there should be living Palestinians.
I doubt you would see that unless you were opposing Democratic values.
Like what? Because friend, basically I would post an AP News article, and then get called a Nazi and told that I should be banned from the fediverse. My post history is public, see for yourself. lol
Report their comments, most instances will ban them unless they comment on a Nazi instance in which case good riddance.
If its a nazi instance, ask your admin to defederate.
Call them a dumbass bitch idiot
There’s a lot of other good suggestions here, so I’ll just ask, what outcome are you hoping to achieve?
My conscience. assuaged.
If that’s the case, I’d recommend treating them like spam: reply and you’ll get a lot more.
Mostly, it’s a huge emotional and time investment if you want to change someone’s behavior and from what I gather, it’s a one on one type of thing and really hard. If you want to stop them from interacting negatively with others, your best action would be to report them.
If you’re upset and want to vent, then engaging will be fun for a while, but mostly futile in terms of behaviour adjustments.
If I respond, it’s mostly for the ‘audience’. I used to argue on r/libertarian or r/conservative, not to change the other person’s mind, but to add a different opinion to the thread. I doubt I ever convinced the other person of anything, but hope I got other people to think a bit more about some of the policies being advocated for.
This makes it look like the post is popular and draws more attention. Depending on the platform, it signals the algorithm to show it to more people.
Doing this is engaging exactly the way they expect you to engage, it helps no one.
I tend to not reply because that will just draw more attention to them. I will post a separate top level comment rebutting their statements without referring to them.
That’s a good strategy, thanks.
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Sometimes in wonder if Lemmy is the number 1, social network in Americans highschools.
Because some of these replies…
Don’t feed the trolls. If you find a bigot willing to have a good faith debate, maybe, but there is no reasoning with cult members. They have to want to change.
When Lemmy first got popular and all debates happened and such, I kept debating politely while they kept bashing, insulting and all that. I’m over that.
When I see such opinions now, I block them. They are seriously not worth my time, energy and effort. Let them wallow in their misery.
They won’t realize it but everything bad they hope happening to others will certainly bite them back sooner or later. The moment they do not fit their (own) ideology of fascism just a tiny bit, it’ll bite them back.
I’d bet it is already happening to them, as they are almost always full of self hatred, bashing more and more because of it, like one runs faster and faster away from a car (I’m bad at metaphors).
They won’t realize it but everything bad they hope happening to others will certainly bite them back sooner or later.
This applies to all of us. What we put out returns. It’s easy to repay hate for hate, but…a lie travels quickly while truth endures and eventually prevails. I’m not saying do not defend ourselves where necessary; but to do so with sorrow and compassion.
