A tweet states that National Guard or Active Duty military ordered to violate constitutional rights can call the GI Rights Hotline for support, with the number 1-877-447-4487 provided.
A tweet states that National Guard or Active Duty military ordered to violate constitutional rights can call the GI Rights Hotline for support, with the number 1-877-447-4487 provided.
No. They should not shoot the officer that gives the order, that is a prison sentence no matter what.
The whole “disobey unethical orders” thing is for officers on the field receiving orders from command that they perceive as a warcrime (or against the constitution). They simply say “no, we aren’t doing that”.
If someone shoots an officer ordering war crimes that is justice, and probably why they don’t allow military members to be tired by public courts. They would almost certainly be acquitted.
Honestly I like how the constitution says everyone without exception is allowed a jury trial, but we just pretend that it’s okay for the military to not follow that. Like sure now they are volunteers, but conscription has a long history. It’s kinda fucked up when you think about it, and definently unconstitutional
The military is told when they enlist that they are signing away their rights as a citizen until the term of enlistment, or their commission, is fulfilled. Personally I appreciated being bound by a much smaller, but somewhat more restrictive, set of rules that they gave each of us a copy of to read and learn. Turns out it’s much easier to just do what you want to do, if you know how to do it within the rules.
I understand that’s what we say, but it’s not in the constitution and courts have ruled that you cannot sign away your rights as they are inalienable. Yet, it’s allowed for the military to do so
Military kinda has to operate under its own jurisdiction. They have to be able to tell the president, “no.” The founders didn’t think we would have a standing military, so they didn’t put provisions in the Constitution itself, but once it became clear that we were going to have to have a standing army and navy at all times, we changed the laws.
Also it can be argued that a court martial is better than a jury trial. Because the jury is made of JAG, so they actually know what the UCMJ says, and what precedents apply.
I get what you’re saying, but historically the military does not tell the president “no” (at least to our knowledge) and has constantly committed war crimes with little to no repercussions
No. You are 100% WRONG. Shooting an officer ordering a war crime is not justice … it is actually criminal behavior. It is not how it is done.
Source: The UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice)
Because the UCMJ has done such a great job of preventing war crimes and punishing war criminals…
Just because something is illegal doesn’t make it unjust and vice versa.
After all according to the German military the holocaust was legal. If soldiers then murdered their officers they would have been seen by the world as heros.
Legality should not be the basis of your morality
Dudes are saying that soldiers should shoot their officers if they give a “bad” order … that’s not how things work. Anyone that thinks it is has watched way too many movies.
Nobody said that, I certainly didn’t.
What I said was if your CO orders you to kill civilians it is absolutely moral to ignore that order and if necessary go beyond the law to prevent it even if that includes killing your CO.
There is a huge difference between a “bad” order and being complicit in war crimes and killing unarmed civilians in your own country.
Incorrect. At least read the conversation you are trying to enter. There are several references stating this should be done. One post even describes where the term “fragging” comes from. The post I responded to stated a soldier could either live with the guilt of what he does or turn on the officer that gave the order.
You are also wrong that you can disobey an order to shoot civilians. It is not always morally acceptable. That will get someone a court martial. A soldier on guard duty on a military base sees several guys jumping a fence and entering an ammo depot. “Halt! Are you guys military? Because I’m not allowed to shoot civilians breaking onto a secured facility” … said no soldier ever in the history of soldiering.
Lmao, I am the person that you’ve been responding to.
So I guess incorrect to you too lol
Nice job making up a new scenario we’re not talking about. I’ll let you figure out how breaking into a military base differs from protesting.
Other note morality and legality are not the same
You said shooting civilians was illegal … I disagreed … I am right. There are millions of scenarios where civilians get killed, and only a few dozen where it is illegal.
You are not the only one posting, if you didn’t bring up the officer bragging statement then someone else did. I didn’t.
You are just one of those people that are argumentative online just to be argumentative. It’s easy to remedy by blocking. Bye “arrow”.
Legality is a copium for libs
If this pops off, there are no laws. It’s just men with guns. Your lib shit is going to get people killed. Lots of people. Your lib shit is how you start a civil war. Stop. Delete this comment. Im trying to reduce harm here, you’re clearly into accellerationism.
Yeah. Yeah they should. And if they don’t, their soldiers should protest, by issuing a report in .768.
Political power, when there is no mutual respect or goal, comes out the barrel of a gun.
Edit: they’ve already violated both the Geneva conventions, as is standard, and the constitution of the united states. Every point in the chain of command is a chance to stop an atrocity. The soldier holding the gun is the absolute last failsafe, and if things get to that point, everything else has failed. Civil society has, at least locally, failed and no longer exists.
Calm your fucking tities! If you just refuse illegal orders, they won’t usually do shit against you, just court martial you. Or attempt to. They can’t execute everyone
If the officers learn that issuing these orders is unwise, the entire artifics of power will balk, and they may stop trying to massacre civilians this way for a few years.
What if you refuse, but the guy next to you already shot a protester?
This administration does not give a shit what the courts or constitution have to say. Do you not remember what these people are protesting? Can you repeat for me, so i know you know?
Why do you think an institution that orders people to shoot unarmed civilians still deserves your faith and respect? That’s a genuinely vile level of boot licking.
Edit: so, looks like the constitution of the united states is being violated now. Counting on due process to punish failsafes for failing at this point seems like you just want it to happen.
Fragging shit officers is a time honored tradition of the enlisted. I say that as an officer. The legality of it really doesn’t matter at the time.
Careful, talking about Fragging during Vietnam was what started my booting off Reddit, lmao, I’m kidding at least about being careful.
Can’t these babykillers do warcrimes against brown people that don’t inconvenience the US as usual?!?