• tomiant@piefed.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    109
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    5 days ago

    The declining birthrate is a feature, not a problem to be solved. We do not need more people. Capitalism needs more people. We don’t.

    • StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      41
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      5 days ago

      I mean, it absolutely can become a problem if an entire population turns elderly and Theres no young people to take over businesses, care for the elderly, maintain critical infrastructure.

      Say what you want about the capitalist ideals that hold this time important,if the birthrate hit 0% we would be facing societal collapse

      • skisnow@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        48
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 days ago

        if the birthrate hit 0% we would be facing societal collapse

        Bit strawmanny that. Nobody considers 0% a reasonable target.

        • StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          4 days ago

          Just an extreme example, but there are actual statistics out there I cant remember where a bunch of people much smarter than me figured out the “this is an emergency” percentage,

      • tomiant@piefed.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        4 days ago

        I mean… That societal collapse may be necessary at some point sooner rather than later- we need to downsize, we can chose to do it on our own terms or just run out the clock and smash into a brick wall. Maybe it’s not a bad thing.

        I’m semi serious. This isn’t working out. I don’t think so, and many with me don’t think so. We can’t keep doing things just because the system demands it, we should be doing what we decide is good and necessary first and then work towards those goals, instead of just doing more of everything and hope that it will magically turn out for the best.

        I am aware of the problem space here and the high cost and risk of dramatically changing course and our way of governing societies, but if we don’t, those problems will not be solved or diminish and we’ll have to deal with it anyway. Capitalism will not save us.

      • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        4 days ago

        So what? If people decide we don’t need any more people then we surely don’t need society.

        I just hope we remember to shut the lights off when we leave.

      • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        4 days ago

        That is why we need automation.

        Just not the infinite growth one from capitalism.

    • petersr@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      4 days ago

      Low birthrate means not enough to pay your retirement - it is not just a problem for companies - also for governments and taxes in the most socialist country.

        • petersr@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          4 days ago

          Please explain how any society can work with an overweight of elderly? Watch Kurzgesagt’s video about South Korea. They are looking into a society where every other person is above 65.

          • Tabula_stercore@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            4 days ago

            An ethical dilemma game

            1. elders get to be alone, demented and taken care of by young people that earn little money to maintain themselves called nurses, and by a ponzi scheme for the rest of society. 1.5) in case the elder is mentally and physically fit, their needs are above a child’s
            2. we normalize end of life; reducing the number of elders vy their choice
            3. we normalize battery babies; grown and born outside of a human; orphanage++

            Reality of demographics don’t allow for another solution.

  • oopsgodisdeadmybad@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    4 days ago

    If you wanna increase birth rates, take 100% of all the billionaire’s money (not a “reasonable tax amount” and spread it to everyone else.

    I’m more than willing to just let them be literally penniless (and disqualified for welfare) if the world will benefit from it. And it will.

    They don’t deserve an honest living, they deserve a solitary confinement cell.

    • Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      4 days ago

      I’m open to them having social welfare after being stripped of their assets. I think I just expect that our prisons should provide its inmates with a humane standard of living of which they would of course have access to from their cell.

      • oopsgodisdeadmybad@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        4 days ago

        They can have a minimum wage job.

        And hopefully after capping them at the knees (power and influence-wise), we can move to a society that actually has universal health care, even for minimum wage.

        I’m not ok with them benefiting from what society at large has been breaking their backs to fund.

        At least not outside of an emergency. I don’t wanna actually have them die because of actual medical issues in the mean time.

        Unless they make spectacles of themselves complaining about their new station in life. That can effectively qualify them to be cut off. Sunny nobody got a right to whine about not getting to use human sacrifice to their benefit anymore.

    • da_cow (she/her)@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 days ago

      Hey, did you know that in terms of male human and female pokemon breeding, vaporeon is not the most compatible pokemon for humans? This is a common and understandable misconception, however vaporeon has its human on pokemon breedability outclassed by it’s cousin evolution, umbreon.

      Umbreon boasts an extremely impressive defense stat spread. With it’s combination of very high HP, defense and special defense stats, it can take a great pounding and come back for more! It’s ability, inner focus allows it to keep slamming attentively, without getting fatigued.

      Umbreon also has access to the ability synchronise, which allows it to share it’s current status with you, meaning you will receive all of the pleasure it feels combined with all the pleasure you’re getting from pounding this perfect, breedable pokemon.

      A great fun fact, umbreon can excrete toxins in it’s sweat, which would in turn soak your member and swell it up, making it even more sizable and sensitive. This would not only enhance the experience for you, but for your umbreon as well (which with synchronise, ends up pleasing you exponentially more). It can learn payback, which doubles in power after the pokemon is hit, meaning umbreon will throw it back twice as hard as normally if you’re hitting it good. Umbreon can also learn guard swap, it could give you it’s insane durability, and go crazy on you all night with your now massive endurance.

      Speaking of endurance, umbreon also has access to endure, making it practically immune to fatigue, it will always have energy left over. Charm is also within umbreon’s movepool, letting it be extremely seductive towards you, easily getting you in the mood. Umbreon can also use taunt, in turn making you only able to do attacking moves such as slam, pound, etc;

      It’s access to the abilities inner focus and synchronise allow it to unwaveringly throw it back and add all of it’s pleasure onto yours, effectively making it twice as amazing as any other pokemon, or even four times, factoring in the doubled power of payback of course. All of this information in combination with it’s extremely useful movepool in the world of intercourse makes umbreon the most qualified to breed with humans; able to take d**k of any shape, any size, in any position easily for extensive periods of time, while having the ability to return for even more mere seconds later.

  • trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    66
    arrow-down
    29
    ·
    5 days ago

    Declining birthrates will save the planet. There’s already more people than we can sustainability support.

    • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      136
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      5 days ago

      We CAN sustain everybody we have now. It’s just billionaires have decided it’s more profitable to let a huge section of society suffer. The more suffering for us, the more profit for them. But you have to balance it, so it doesn’t lead to revolt.

      Thats what ends suffering. Not decreased birthrates, but instead death and revolt of those holding back food and shelter from those that need it, so they can raise prices on unsold units.

      • someguy3@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        5 days ago

        Not so sure, we are pulling resources out of the earth at a ridiculous rate. Even with green energy we are still reliant on mining for everything. Goods, fertilizer, the stuff for solar panels. We’re going to run out of easy to access stuff sooner or later.

        • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.mlOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          12
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          4 days ago

          Degrowth is only an option after the dismantling lf capitalism. We are pulling unreasonable and unsustainable amounts of resources from the earth. This should be ended but that cannot be done while those resources are owned by capitalists who must by the nature of capitalism expand that extraction infinitely. If we want sustainability through the reduction of wasteful and unnecessary use of resources we need a system that is not predicated on infinite growth in a finite system. We can sustain ourselves and the environment, just not like this.

      • trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        4 days ago

        We could feed everyone now, but not sustainably. To produce the amount of food we do now, we need fertilizers made from limited resources like oil and pesticides/fungicides that destroy the ecosystem. If the current agriculture section of the world completely moved to sustainable practices next year there wouldn’t be enough food to support half of the human population.

      • ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        4 days ago

        We can sustain everybody on Earth right now if we all eat beans and rice, give up all meat, stop plane travel, and limit your commutes to ones you can do without a personal car. Even if we get rid of billionaires, the rest of western life is unsustainable at this population.

        If you are reading this message on a smart phone, it’s already too late, you don’t meet this criteria. The only solution for us to sustain your lifestyle is to reduce the population.

        • zbyte64@awful.systems
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          4 days ago

          That’s all hard to do when billionaires are the ones structuring society. The point is we don’t get to choose corrective societal actions unless it is an exercise of individual privilege. I would have loved to take the train to visit relatives, but it literally is not an option.

      • BorgDrone@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        5 days ago

        We CAN sustain everybody we have now.

        Even if we could (which I doubt) is it even worth it living on a planet that’s this crowded?

        • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          5 days ago

          That depends where you live. I wouldn’t want to live in India, which is crowded as hell. But Half of Canada is basically empty. Half of Australia is basically empty. Some of the states in the USA are basically empty. The majority of russia is empty.

          Space isn’t the issue.

          • caurvo@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            5 days ago

            Australia and Canada are most uninhabited because there’s a lot of uninhabitable land. I do agree that a lot of land use isn’t efficient, but there is also generally a reason people don’t live in central Australia.

        • anton@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          5 days ago

          More scientists and inventors, more philosophers and artists, more people that share your niche hobby…
          The only people who have a problem with that, are hipsters or just like dieing a preventable death.

        • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          4 days ago

          Yes? Have you ever been to Tokyo, Shanghai, any of the like 100 cities >10m in China?

          They’re quite nice.

    • mastertigurius@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      36
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      5 days ago

      There’s actually more than enough resources to go around, but enormous amounts are lost to waste, corruption, inequality and greed. The world isn’t actually overpopulated, but over-urbanized. If it was made more feasible for people to live in the districts, more decentralised and with less waste of resources, human society would look very different.

      • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        5 days ago

        Why that direction? Intuitively I’d imagine stuffing the humans into cities would allow more mass transit, fewer cars, more economies of scale, and more area left over for nature. So more like Singapore, less like Texas.

        Has anyone ever done scientific research on this question?

      • zbyte64@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        4 days ago

        Urban centers have less waste or CO2 per capita than their rural or suburban counterparts. The problem is our pursuit of ever increasing profits is extremely wasteful but is currently how states gain influence.

      • trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 days ago

        We produce enough food now, but not sustainably. Fertilizers and pesticides are destroying ecosystems.

          • trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            4 days ago

            Fertilizers that need fossil resources to produce and pesticides that (for now) increase crop gain by killing off insects but in the long term are damaging the ecosystem.

      • TWeaK@lemmy.today
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 days ago

        We could also all sleep together in big rooms, like stadiums, to save heat and power elsewhere. And it won’t turn into that orgy scene at the end of that Matrix movie, not unless Carol wants it to.

      • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        5 days ago

        “In my perfect ideal world, that we have no path to achieving, we could sustain our large population indefinitely.”

    • marcos@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      5 days ago

      It looks like the world can support the current population. Barely.

      But yeah, low birth rate is not something that must be solved right now. And it will solve itself eventually. We should be working into making people comfortable, but if people think their current situation isn’t good enough to have children, just shut the fuck up and let them be.

      • Barbecue Cowboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        5 days ago

        Hard to prove, but even the idea that the world can barely support the current population is likely just propaganda trying to reinforce a scarcity mindset.

        We could probably pack nearly everyone in the entire world in to an area the size of the United Kingdom, and most could be living better lives than they do now. Population Density comparable to New York City would get you around 7 billion people. Obviously, we can do better than that, but just trying to put it into perspective.

        Even for agriculture, you could support the current population with what we’ve got and a lot more if that was your priority. There are dramatic gains to be made by reducing or eliminating meat and unless we made some new unfortunate discoveries that would 100% get you there, but you might not even have to. We’re strong into theory territory and might have to focus on prioritizing fertile land for agriculture but having everyone in the world eat like an average american would likely be doable at current levels if we actually wanted to prioritize that.

      • 18107@aussie.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        5 days ago

        Kill* about 15 billionaires and suddenly we can support a lot more people with the same resources.

        *Other options available

    • ynthrepic@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      5 days ago

      Not actually true, unless your means of supporting people includes provisions for the extravagances of carbon-based energy and huge amounts of inefficiency everywhere in the supply chain.

      If we want to carry on with capitalism as we know it now, yes. And you know it’s going to be the elderly, sick, disabled, among the working class population that need to go first. You know, those who can’t be forced to work. It’s not the poor working class populations who wealthy right-wing policy makers are asking to have more babies.

      The world is already on track for around 10 billion people anyway, because there are already enough young people in developing nations who we expect to have families of their own in the next few decades.

      So good thing we could carry that many people sustainably if we get our shit together.

      Not that I’m against Pokemon inspired sexy times between consenting adults.

    • BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      4 days ago

      And here I paid for sleep as android like a rube… Better not start using Pokémon sleep, it’ll classify me somewhere between snorlax, psyduck, and goldeen.

  • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    4 days ago

    Pokemon Create and every time you take a photo of a new newborn baby with the app, and send your genetic samples for verification, you have a chance to collect a rare pokemon