For example workplace harrasment by women towards males like touching or groping being ignored because the victim is male but if it where to happen to a woman by a male the male would be fired
One that constantly comes up between me and my partner is fashion related. She is very liberal but when it comes to our relationship is the exact opposite. She buys everything from lacy thongs and g-strings to boy shorts underwear. She hates that I as a man wear thong and bikini underwear, too. I’m athletic, lift and workout 5 days a week, and get hot very easily. I like the support and minimalism of thongs for that, but she always buys me boxers which are uncomfortable and bunch up and all the extra fabric and cotton makes me hot and sweaty and chafe. When I bring up she wears thongs just do she doesn’t have panty lines and I wear them for comfort and support she doesn’t understand. She also mentioned she thinks guys wearing thongs is weird but then says it’s so “brave” when gay guys do it during pride. I once called her out and homophobic for assuming it’s a fetishized gay guys only thing and she got mad, but am I wrong?
You’re definitely not wrong. If she’s willing to undermine or criticize your clothes preference after you’ve already told her why you like them and you don’t want to change, what else is she willing to undermine?
I feel very comfortable sharing with her, especially since I grew up in an extremely conservative area of the south and she grew up in an upper class suburb in the Bay Area in California. She knows when I’m feeling “off” because it manifests in body language she picks up on and tries to get me to share (I.e. when I’m having work or family problems) but it’s been hard to break that “men don’t share their feelings” attitude I was raised with. She actually buys me clothing that is vibrant and traditionally female brands (lulu, Madewell, etc…). That’s why I was kind of taken aback when I first started wearing my thongs around her and she was like “are those women’s panties?” Because they were brightly colored pink pair of a male thong from MeUndies. I explained they are the comfortable for support when engaging in cardio and lifting and she was like, “I don’t like seeing you in them”.
In the same way I grew up in a very conservative area and this is a unique way to express myself and enjoy feeling sexy, I think she grew up in the opposite and that’s why she was attracted to stoic, lumbering me. She has jokingly called me a “brute” in a loving way and says she is fascinated how I just “power through” manual labor for 12 hours at a time on the weekend doing projects and lifting heavy stuff around our house. I think she just has a biological urge to see me as that big protector.
Also, she always talks about how she doesn’t like muscle on guys, but since we have been together I have put on a lot of muscle and the more I put on the more she is constantly squeezing my arms and shoulders and putting her head on my chest… but she has also noticed that other women will feel my arms in public and I think she gets a little jealous
She chooses for image. She’s sympathetic. But, she’s no empathy for you valuing different facets in your choice. Is it just underwear or does this extend to more, possibly all choices?
We agree on the overwhelming majority of important things (politics, cleanliness, nutrition, children) but obviously we have different tastes within those areas, I love cashews, she hates them, I prefer lifting weights, she prefers Pilates, etc… This is just the one weird thing we get hung up on.
This is more like her insisting you not eat cashews, because she hates cashews.
Only in this case her hate is homophobic/transphobic. Women can wear boy stuff. And men can, in theory, wear ‘queer’ stuff. As long as it’s not her partner doing it.
She obviously likes the way you look in boxers. Maybe ask her to buy you some Saxx brand boxers: synthetic stretchy, great support, durable. Two pairs got me about 1k trail miles. I’ve since replaced everything.
How does their synthetic hold up?
I’ve always bought their cotton boxer briefs and it seems that in recent years the durability has gone down. They used to last a few years a pair, but new pairs start to look baggy and sad after about 4-6 months. (They’re honestly off the list of products I buy right now.)
Mine are all a couple years old. I’d expect the same enshitification across the product line.
I find my clothing by asking ultralight hikers, runners, and bicyclists.
As a guy who’s trying dating again, there’s something that keeps coming up that kinda bugs me: talking to women who just put in the bare minimum of effort, expect me to carry the conversation and make all the first moves.
I don’t give two shits about traditional gender roles and I’m all about subverting them. However, I think if you’re in the same boat but still wanna call yourself a “passenger princess” and expect the guy to do everything, you’re kind of a hypocrite.
This kind of thing drives me mad.
If we both like each other, why don’t we communicate like adults instead of playing some stupid game?
Exactly.
Well, then there’s another stupid game… “Hey hon’ do I look fat in these jeans?”
“Positively rotund. How’d you even fit through the door to get in here? I’m amazed your shins haven’t given out under the strain.”
Push those “”““tests””“” right back down their throats with a second hand toilet plunger.
Just want to let you know that you aren’t alone. I have talked to a number of women who advocate for things like DEI and acceptance (which is something I also believe quite strongly in) but often default to preferring more traditional gender norms in dating. When pressed on the issue (not like I’m interrogating them just through normal conversations and getting to know them) they will inevitably say that it is ultimately “just their preference”.
What I find so odd about that “preference” is if a man behaves in accordance with the traditional/societal gender norms in the beginning of the courting process, why is it surprising that they do the same thing later in the relationship when it comes to sharing emotional labor or various types of household chores?
I know the below is taking it to a bit of an extreme example but that behavior and “preference” often reminds me the sentiment “the only moral abortion is my abortion”. Like I get it, there are a lot of shitty people out there who have no interest in putting in the effort, and they absolutely are not worth the time and effort, but when you do meet someone who is willing to put in that effort, it isn’t really fair to treat them like all those other people.
Men are in a kind of catch-22. Women say they want one thing but their actions usually say they want the opposite.
Not really. It’s quite easy to understand. They generally want feminism when it benefits them, but traditional gender roles when it benefits them.
I don’t blame them though, I also want things that benefit them. But it’s a dick move to do it with feminism, which is supposed to mean equality.
It’s not equality when they can pick and choose when to be equal.
I’ve got a theory that women put more effort into dating apps than we think. It’s just spread across so many more people.
Oh yeah, I’ve seen the other side of things through female friends. They generally have the opposite problem as men.
I’d heard about guys doing stupid shit on dating apps like sending unsolicited dick pics or just going straight for sexual stuff and figured it was maybe a “yeah it happens once in a while” kinda thing, because I’d personally never do something like that. But in fact it seems like a large portion of the interactions are just that bad.
So I can understand not putting in a lot of effort initially. Starting with small talk and making sure it’s not a waste of your time. I do the exact same thing.
But even after it feels like I’ve started to establish a rapport with someone, the conversation still can feel incredibly one-sided. It’s like, okay, at this point you’re just kinda being disrespectful. And it happens over and over again.
Drop these conversations, let them go cold. This person clearly has no affinity with you or doesn’t value you. Move on.
Yes, thank you, I never would have figured that out without your brilliant insight.
Unfortunately, because of the aforementioned probationary period at the start of any conversation, it can take some time before it becomes clear that the other person just isn’t that interested.
Can I still be annoyed at my time and effort being wasted? Or is it just my fault for being a man on a dating app?
Domestic violence against men is usually ignored or blamed on the victim.
Cut bits of a girl baby’s genitals: jail.
Cut bits off a boy baby’s genitals: An occasion for a fucking party.
And old men can suck on the wound.
Say what ?!? Is this real ?
Yes, rabbi use to suck on baby dicks after mutilating them. Iirc a lot of them stopped doing it after giving a few babies herpes.
In dating or marriage: If a female partner criticizes on her male’s choice of outfit, it’s totally normal. If a male criticizes the choice of outfit of his female partner… a fight is imminent.
Sounds like an unhealthy relationship to me instead of a double standard but whatever.
The whole question of double standards is in a sense, asking about common unhealthy traits
Insane expectations being placed on women around beauty and appearance, and the resulting insecurities that creates, play a big role in this
It’s fairly broadly believed that strong male influences benefit a child greatly, but males are looked at with huge skepticism if they attempt to enter most forms of childcare as a profession.
doing oppositely gendered activities.
my girlfriend can change the oil in her car and lifts weights?
cool. healthy.
i can sew my own clothes and bake?
Weird. Creepy.
i can sew my own clothes and bake?
Weird. Creepy.
Hard disagree. I wish I knew how (and had the time to) make my own clothes. And, who doesn’t love baked goods? These both sound awesome.
I don’t think that’s exactly true. As a woman I’ve had situations where I was questioned even when I knew exactly what I was talking about just because it was a traditionally male activity.
Yes, I know what type of battery I want for my car. Yes, I know it’s uncommon, I checked if you had it in your website before I came here. Yes, I know how to install it and I don’t want to pay you to do it. Shut up and take my money so I can leave.
I have several stories like this. In home renovation stores men that work there are always super opinionated on the problem that I’m trying to solve. I’m just looking for the supplies I want, I didn’t ask for opinions.
It doesn’t help that I’m small and look young, but still they should mind their own business.
Are you sure those home renovation workers weren’t trying to make conversation, might even being bragging about their own project attempts and you being a women had nothing to do with how they interact with any other customer?
I work in a company that seems to have mostly women in management roles and the area I work in has mostly women in our area as well. The things I’ve heard women say about men though would get any guy shit-canned within a day if he were to say anything like that about women. Women can straight-up say things like, “I hate men” or “Men are such assholes” or “What is wrong with men?” or “Guys are so stupid!” or “My husband is such a fucking idiot” or saying blatantly sexual shit about men that they have crushes on or find attractive. It’s just a joke to them, like whatever. Meanwhile, if a guy were to say anything even remotely approaching to what I’ve heard in our office, they would be gone like nothing, there’s just no tolerance for that.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m not offended by women saying sexist things like that or talking sexually about guys, I don’t give a shit, I’ve heard worse from other guys. That doesn’t bother me and I’m not looking to get anybody in trouble over it, I just want tolerance from both sides. What bothers me is that men aren’t afforded that same courtesy and aren’t allowed to talk the same way. Women can talk shit at work all they want about men because “Fuck the patriarchy, old white men are ruining everything, etc”, but whooo, if a guy says anything remotely out of line about women, they will be reported like that 🫰.
Last time I checked, women were overwhelmingly likely to be granted custody over men, even when the man is a better parent.
I don’t know any specific cases, but one thing I’ve heard that police (at least in Brazil) will just laugh at and ignore, is when a man is the victim of an abusive partner.
Of course, it’s nowhere as common as men being the violent/abusive partner, but it happens, yet “society” will effectively say “grow a pair”
Most studies show domestic abuse is almost always close 50/50 in perpetrators.
Can you show me some of these studies?
Of course, it’s nowhere as common as men being the violent/abusive partner, but it happens, yet “society” will effectively say “grow a pair”
It’s funny how when talking about male victimization, people always feel the need to throw in a disclaimer that men are still “worse”
Which, I mean, they are:
Victim/Perpetrator adisaggregation reveals a large disparity in the shares of male and female victims of homicide committed by intimate partners or other family members: 36% male versus 64% female victims. Women also bear the greatest burden in terms of intimate partner violence.
— Source: United Nations Global Study on Homicide: Gender-related killing of women and girls
Domestic violence is a serious and challenging public health problem. Approximately 1 in 3 women and 1 in 10 men 18 years of age or older experience domestic violence. Annually, domestic violence is responsible for over 1500 deaths in the United States
According to the CDC, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men will experience physical violence by their intimate partner at some point during their lifetimes. About 1 in 3 women and nearly 1 in 6 men experience some form of sexual violence during their lifetimes. Intimate partner violence, sexual violence, and stalking are high, with intimate partner violence occurring in over 10 million people each year.
One in 6 women and 1 in 19 men have experienced stalking during their lifetimes. The majority are stalked by someone they know. An intimate partner stalks about 6 in 10 female victims and 4 in 10 male victims.
At least 5 million acts of domestic violence occur annually to women aged 18 years and older, with over 3 million involving men. While most events are minor, for example grabbing, shoving, pushing, slapping, and hitting, serious and sometimes fatal injuries do occur. Approximately 1.5 million intimate partner female rapes and physical assaults are perpetrated annually, and approximately 800,000 male assaults occur. About 1 in 5 women have experienced completed or attempted rape at some point in their lives. About 1% to 2% of men have experienced completed or attempted rape.
— https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499891/
That’s not to downplay male victimization incidents, but let’s also not pretend the scale is the same.
Men are often expected to swallow their emotions and just “function”, while women are allowed and even encouraged to display them openly
I would counter this and say any woman with a career can absolutely not show emotion. They’re expected to behave like men, which are in turn not supposed to show emotion in the workplace. It’s less of a double standard and more of a toxic standard.
Commenter didn’t say work. It’s true in all circumstances.
You recognizing it as true in the work place by understanding women are expected to be like men in the work place. Because men are not expected to show emotions.
Your counter is actually an example.
No one calls a woman a babysitter or says she’s “giving dad a break” when she’s somewhere with her own children.
I’m about 30. I have friends my age with young (toddler) daughters. They’ve had the police called on them walking with their own child. I’ve had the police called on me watching their daughter for them (these are friends I’ve had for 12 years, I’m basically her uncle).
Men are assumed to be predators if they are near children.
I used to take my twin daughters to the park and we would have daddy day while their mom was at work swing shifts.
We had pizza at the park, and it worked out because changing their diapers on a shitty blanket was easier than fumbling around on a bench since no one thought to put a diaper tray in any of the men’s restrooms.
Had the police called on me a few times. Never did they take the call seriously after showing up. One female officer told a Karen that she is annotating this as a fraud call because anyone with half a brain would realize it’s a dad eating pizza with his kids rather than a kidnapper molesting children in public.
Mom changes a diaper? No one cares.
Some good examples:
-
Fat acceptance and body positivity. Obesity is glorified (even fetishized) when it’s a woman, whereas obese men are shunned. Have you noticed that nobody in the fat acceptance movement is vouching for the 300lb basement dwellers?
-
Older ladies who date younger guys are called cougars, whereas if you flip the gender roles, an older man dating a younger lady half his age is going to be labelled a pedophile, even if she’s of-age. Just look at at the anger surrounding Tobey Maguire (48 years old) dating a 20 year old actress. There are people who legitimately think men like him should be hunted for sport.
-
The amount of effort you have to put into your dating profile. Women have the opposite problem of being inundated with matches even with minimal effort.
The body positivity one really upsets me. A few years ago Target rearranged the clothing area. The men’s area shrank and the women’s is like three times are big. The women’s area has all manner of plus sized models and mannequins. Nothing of the sort in the men’s.
It’s like, I’ve always known body positivity (when it comes to corporations doing it) is extremely one sided and they’re only chasing profits but I’d never seen it so literally before. Target was one of my favorite places to shop for clothes.
I think I get what you’re saying but let’s be honest in that a larger guy half the time will just need an XL T-shirt. The sizes of these areas for merchandise are relative to consumer demands and consumer volume by sex. As someone who worked at Target for a couple of years back in the day, yes, far more women shop there. And the style of dressing for women has always been more diverse.
With respect to the mannequins, there seems to be a difference in the perception of average body types in reflection based on the gender. Perhaps this is more a trait of conservative men, but no matter how much of a beer belly they have, they seem to want to be perceived like they’re macho manly six-pack men. Marketing plays to that. On the flip-side, it has become trendy to give comfort to women who – by far – receive far more bullying over being large both online and offline. No doubt as a white male I feel fucking privileged by contrast of what my sisters or wife have gone through at times in their lives.
-
In favor of men: when we get angry, people listen. When women get angry, people stop listening.
Against men: men being around children is seen as suspect. Women being around children is seen as healthy.
Well, for one, the ability to freely talk about issues specific to their gender without judgement by ~20% of the population
We had to shutter !twoxchromosomes@slrpnk.net because of persistent and vocal judgement by a large population of Lemmy users, many from Lemmy.World. So no, talking about issues specific to their gender is definitely not a double standard where men get the short end of the stick.
This is why you get judged. Because you so nakedly put on display how much ignorance and little empathy you have for women’s issues.
!mensliberation@lemmy.ca exists specifically for men who understand their issues in society are intersectional with women’s issues, and that solving them requires uniting to end patriarchy. Any discussion outside of that framing deserves the assumption that it’s a misogynist men’s pity party.
Why is it okay for twoX to be devoted to women’s issues and actively discourage comparing them to men’s issues, but men can’t have an analogous space?
Fwiw, if your twoX was different from previous similarly-named communities then I am sorry it closed.
I think you misunderstood me. I do think men should have an analogous space. I support !mensliberation@lemmy.ca 100%.
If you didn’t misunderstand me, men don’t need a space specifically for comparing their issues negatively against women’s issues. That space is everywhere and anywhere, as evidenced by this discussion occurring in !asklemmy@lemmy.world and collecting overwhelmingly positive upvotes.
Your comments here are an example of double standard.
You are asking for men issues to stay in groups specific to that issue. Anyone who did the same for questions about women would be called a misogynist.
Wow, you’re really reaching there. I’m asking you to stop blaming women for men’s problems. There’s a group of people who aren’t doing that, and if you don’t want to be called a misogynist, follow the example of that group.
I’m asking you to stop blaming women for men’s problems.
And yet you’re the exact type of person to blame men for women’s issues lol
Your mental gymnastics are funny
The incels are out in force.
Ask them if they’re also supportive of White Pride and the KKK. Or if they’d endorse a “White Lives Matter” movement.
- If they aren’t, then it reveals their cognitive dissonance.
- If they are, then while they may be consistent, it also reveals they’re bigots and exposes the fallacious thinking.
Maybe then the cognitive dissonance will be obvious.
