because even if they were illegal immigrants, that doesn’t justify this. That’s a civil offense. There’s no justification for these actions. I’m ready in my house for them and when they break in, I’m opening fire. and I’ll go on record about why and I’ll say i hope this makes every ice agent quit their jobs in fear for their lives.
I hope you survive the encounter, but I agree that this is the only way to strike fear into ICE so that they decide to either defect or follow the laws.
I don’t see how he can survive it? Maybe he can survive the round of ICE agents, but then they’ll just call in the police next.
i don’t expect to but I’m so mad that spite noses and faces. I’m so out of my mind angry i almost wish they would try
Oklahoma has a lot of laws saying you can shoot anyone on your property and in your residence.
I’m surprised their wasn’t a shootout, but don’t worry that day is fast approaching.
The problem with the fantasy of home invasion is that you don’t get a fifteen minute notice to pull all your guns out and bunker down like you’re a Vietcong guerrilla.
And anyone who thinks “if a cop breaks into my home, I’ll just shot them and that’ll be that” needs to learn about Ruby Ridge.
Atatiana Jefferson was shot because the cops were snooping around her property. You dont even ha e to have the cops break in to get shot
I mean, that was back during the halcyon era of prosecuting police officers who shoot civilians in their sleep. The offending officer received 11 years, 10 months, and 12 days - the jury picked the date of the shooting for the sentence - for manslaughter.
But this was back in 2022 when the Dallas PD was Woke. Can’t imagine it happening today without a gubernatorial pardon in the mix.
2a J6 Maga idolizes Ruby Ridge, and they have more in common with Terry Nichols and Tim McVeigh than they will ever admit. The authors of project 25 I guarantee have read and probably still have copies of The Turner Diaries.
These 2a shoot first gungho maga people all definitely all over Oklahoma.
2a J6 Maga idolizes Ruby Ridge
The Ruby Ridge incident (and Waco among others) served to give reactionaries a martyrdom complex. But the lessons of these incidents was “Never let a liberal become President or they’ll start treating us like we wanted to treat Rodney King”.
These 2a shoot first gungho maga people all definitely all over Oklahoma.
They were all over Idaho in 1992. That’s why Ruby Ridge happened.
But the US Marshalls didn’t give a shit about the politics of the Weavers. All they cared about was meeting an ATF arrest quota. Neither are the Oklahoma PD going to care whether the door they bust down is of a MAGA voter or a Woke Lib. They’re here to meet Trump’s demand for a million deportations, not to debate politics.
Getting in a shoot-out with the cops will automatically brand the household as Bidencrat Antifa MS-13. The local news will report the incident as a villainous ambush of brave ICE deputies. The Feds will use this as an excuse to expand the budgets of the cops and throw the wounded/killed agents a ticker-tape parade. And police will conclude they need to be even more adversarial in their household raids than they were previously.
Unless you’re going full Vietcong (which the 2a shoot first gungho maga people simply are not willing or able to do), there’s no defense to this kind of police escalation.
And all that is assuming an unwitting 50 year old with a bad back is going to be in a position to get the drop on a fully armed and armored SWAT team with state of the art surveillance.
Lots of people keep shotguns at their door too.
Sure. And if you’re holding the shotgun when the first cop comes through the door, and you can get them before they get you, and you don’t mind the next thirty cops who come rolling up behind him looking for revenge, that’s great.
Right. It’s a death sentence. So if you do realize that you’re going to a camp overseas. Then it’s time to make peace with whatever God you believe in and take some with you. Because sure, you’ll get 1 or 2, but you will die that day.
That’s better than going to Gitmo or Cecot
It’s not a discrete choice, just a power fantasy.
Death vs. imprisonment is certainly a choice.
Lesson: Before you move into a new rental, find out who was there before and how long it’s been empty. I can see this situation happening a lot as more targeted people move to avoid being found, and unknowing people move into the vacated rental unit.
Marisa said the agents tore apart every square inch of the house and what few belongings they had, seizing their phones, laptops and their life savings in cash as “evidence.”
“I told them before they left, I said you took my phone. We have no money. I just moved here,” she said. “I have to feed my children. I’m going to need gas money. I need to be able to get around. Like, how do you just leave me like this? Like an abandoned dog.”
As for Marissa’s phones, electronics, and cash, they have no idea which agency has those belongings or how to get those items back.
They’re totally fucked. Each agency that was there denies responsibility and refers them to the next, which does the same.
No, fuck that. You can’t reasonably expect to spend 300 hours a year doing research in all manner of different matters to make sure they accidentally don’t end up getting rocked by the cops. How about the cops do some fucking research before they yeet a flashbang in with a baby and deny responsibility?
This whole situation is a “should never happen” that, in a just world, would at least cost someone their job.
We’re totally fucked. This could happen to any one of us.
Gonna have to replace all those electronics too, even if they’re given back.
How’s everyone feeling about America having Nazi Gestapo and concentration camps?
Supermax Prison, not just for brown people anymore
I guess, after trying it, I’d have to say nah, not really into it.
Too bad Americans are stupid enough to have to see for themselves before they judge.
The conservative sister fucks are still celebrating all of this
Your generalizations, friend, cut me to the quick.
I feel used to it. We had concentration camps during the FDR admin, and we’ve had gestapo since shortly after 9/11. Trump didn’t turn the US into shit, all he did was smear it on our faces.
non of these raids happened under Biden, stop lying to yourself. Trump is 100% exponentially escalating the surveilance state
Biden didn’t do anything to roll it back, either, AFAIK. The democrats built their 2024 campaign on “Trump is a dangerous fascist” (and he is) right up until they shitcanned it when that kid took a shot at him. Well, they said he was a dangerous fascist, but they sure didn’t act like it, and they left all the tools he would need handily lying around for him.
deleted by creator
That’s about1.5% of the undocumented population in the US.
For comparison, trump wants to deport 1,000,000 people a year.
Trump is also deporting people without due process. He’s deporting people who are here legally and going through the immigration system.
The scale of difference here is the difference.
To a death camp?
And how many of them were sent to mega prisons in nations they’ve never been to in their lives?
Zero. The answer is zero.
and we’ve had gestapo since shortly after 9/11.
Ignorant shit right here
Oh look, someone too young to remember life before the patriot act
I wish.
But no, I’m someone who knows what the Gestapo was and actually did.
Me too. It was shit like this.
Is this free association?
Do you know what the Gestapo was? Abu Griahb is not analogous at all. Two completely different (both awful) things.
Your photos were taken in Afghanistan.
The Gestapo operated domestically
You’re splitting hairs. The United States arreats people without warrants, holds them indefinitely without trial, tortures them, and kills them. It’s been doing so for over 20 years. I don’t care where they’re doing it. I care that they’re doing it. You can “no true gestapo” at me all day long but that’s close enough for me.
we’ve had gestapo since shortly after 9/11.
What?
not the suspects
Irrelevant. No one is safe in that nation.
that nation What nation do you live in?
And are you adopting? Asking for…me. I’m asking for me. No lie.
Canada, so maybe wait to see if we are invaded first.
A cop in Detroit smelled fentanyl, so we sent an armored battalion into Windsor.
Get your hands up! Everyone in Windsor get your hands where we can see them!!
Trump’s brown shirts terrorizing Americans.
I’m such a nerd I read this as Brown Coats and thought “why would they be terrorizing anyone?”
More of an Alliance thing, really.
Trump’s brown shirts terrorizing minors in their underwear.
I’m disgusted but I’m not surprised.
Probably high fived each other back at the station.
Ah, they robbed them too while they were at it. If they take your shit and give no information on how to get it back, how is it not stolen?
I guess anyone moving to a new address should assume the gestapo can show up whenever they please looking for former residents.
Like how is this even possible. The whole “home invasion” style of enforcement is itself dystopian and wrong, but once you’re all done you should have some clear paperwork and accountability to hand out. That they don’t have it indicates the people involved don’t believe in due process or public accountability.
Were these people even real agents? How could she even verify that? No one should need to “look into” the matter. There should be a case number, organization, and point of contact on an official form for her. They aren’t the people and that should be easy to verify with a day, give them their stuff back.
Were these people even real agents? How could she even verify that?
Hard to say. Two of the three agencies that identified themselves to her (FBI and US Marshals) later denied having agents there.
Either they’re lying or shit is real disorganized. Or both. It’s probably both.
You know Hanlon’s razor? We need an addendum to it that I’ll be calling Trump’s razor: under the current administration, if there’s a possible explanation that’s both malicious AND stupid, that’s the most likely one.
Now imagine all the other families that have been traumatized by ICE. Are people going to stand up and support one another?
Sure. I’m asking my friends to lawyer up. Not sure what else one can do against police unless you are just going for the old k-d ratio
1 k-d ratio for me please
On home turf? Kevin McCallister would be ashamed.
Some of that shit reached Saw levels; barefoot smeared with tar and then stepping on a nail in a shingle? Didn’t that violate one of the Geneva Suggestions…?
Geneva only applies to warfare. That’s why your local cops can taze and teargas you. Oh, and the signatory country can just ignore those conventions and deal with a little bit of international fallout.
“Geneva Suggestions.” I said it right there.
Otherwise, no notes.
I’m remodeling.
Anyone tries invading my home without a warrant is going to get what they deserve.
I mean… they claimed they had a warrant. But who the hell knows. They seem to be happy to lie about that lately. And since they show up when everyone’s in bed and bash the door in before you can even respond, how would you know?
Likely they had an administrative warrant that doesn’t allow for a search like a judical warrant does.
in my case both the front and the back door have two doors with deadbolts and stairs to climb so you’re going to be pretty loud before you get to me and I’m going to be ready with a shotgun… but yeah I’d rather it didn’t happen.
When you check their bodies if you have a gun handy…
And if they were the “suspects,” it would have been much, much worse. She might have never seen her children again. Not because she did anything wrong or there was anything wrong with her visa, but just because they’d written her name down and decided today was her day.
2a
While defending yourself in a no knock situation could be warranted, we can’t pretend that ICE wouldn’t have then murdered the whole family. You might be able to find a sympathetic judge and jury but that’s not worth much when you and / or people you care about are dead.
That’s assuming they’ll be left in peace after the illegal gestapo raid. Who’s to say that said gestapo’s not going to put them in a truck and send him to a concentration camp in El Salvador. People have no choice but to defend themselves as if ice is at your door they’re going to kill you. Because that’s the implication
I was thinking of a custom “Free Bullets with Every Forced Entry” sign.
They had military grade weapons .
Doesn’t “military grade” mean from the cheapest bidder?
99% of the time. Keeping in mind of course that “military contract” adds several zeros to the end of any bill
Are their faces military grade?
So do we
We can’t use fully auto
You can. It’s illegal in your country. Just like breaking down your door without a warrant.
With the correct FFL you can.
Also there are Forced Reset Triggers.
The agents had a search warrant for the home
if the law is on their side, why are they wearing masks?
I’ve been saying this too! Why not show your faces if you think you’re doing the right thing?!?!?
No, they had a writ from DHS it was not a valid warrant.
Source? I copied that from the article.
https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/ice_warrants_summary.pdf
DHS issues writs for ICE but since there is no court hearing these cases, there is no warrant that ICE can obtain. The DOJ has said there is no warrant required…which is spurious as that goes against the 4th amendment. ICE will call a writ a warrant, and often journalists will write what they’re told. See these articles regarding a different arrest below
That doesn’t say anything about this case. Given it wasn’t just ICE involved, it’s possible that a judicial warrant was obtained.
There is not a court that ICE has access to that will issue a valid warrant. This is why the DOJ just said it doesn’t matter if there is a warrant or not. ICE is flagrantly defying the 4th amendment. That other case, ICE can be heard in a recording telling Mahmoud’s wife that they have a warrant. Now they say that they never had/needed one in the first place.
The issue is that ICE cannot legally get a warrant for the people they are choosing to detain as they focus on families. The “dangerous criminals” that have real warrants, those are usually served/executed by the FBI, Marshalls, or local SWAT. I don’t know if you live in the US like I do, but this is a pretty serious issue as again, these writs are not warrants, ICE does not have access to a warrant as that’s not how our courts are set up nor is it how their department was set up.
Both of the resources I listed at the top of my response explain this in depth. The last link I shared was for context.
Are those even legit anymore? Any idiot judge (or DOGE script kiddie pretending to be one) can sign one.
I’m just responding the the meme asking Police to come back with a warrant
Law enforcement officers have a duty of care. If they execute a no knock warrant at an address that is no longer valid and get shot in the process it is likely there would be no criminal culpability for the homeowner if it’s in a castle doctrine state.
it wouldn’t matter. we’re not far from (in both directions really) the state doing Philly level bombings of entire blocks to get at the people they claim are the bad guys.
Breonna’s BF got the charges dropped after shooting those cops in their apartment.
Of course, the police harassed him for years during and after the case was decided. They also tried to get Breonna’s ex (the guy they were looking for) to lie about hiding at her apartment sometimes, luckily, he didn’t take the cushy plea deal they dangled to implicate Breonna and her BF.
He did and I’d say that was emblematic of what’s happening now on a smaller scale.
The charges were dropped in that case because the Judicial system is still hanging on on the US.
Meanwhile, the police, part of the broken Executive, harassed and targeted him when they were the ones who violated their duty of care.
Meanwhile the Legislative is off in the corner eating paint chips or some bullshit.
Wasn’t there an executive order issued today that seemed to imply that wouldn’t matter?
If there was, I didn’t see it but as the Executive will find out if there was, it’s not up to them, it’s up to the Judicial.
The person currently occupying the White House is not a king. Much as he might like to believe otherwise.
I’m a law abiding citizen of the United States. If someone breaks into my home have every reason to believe they’re hostile and won’t hesitate to use deadly force to protect myself and my family.
is not a king
Even if be were called “King” rather than “President”, the Constitution is still a thing. He can call himself whatever, really.
Funny thing is, many citizens of the US seem to have less rights and priviledges than subjects of the UK.
Does lemmy have a sub for badlegaladvice? This comment feels like a prime candidate :)
They’re right, but only in a very theoretical sense. As in, it’s true that you can legally shoot at officers who don’t identify themselves in self-defense, but whether that’s actually how things work in court is an entirely other matter.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/08/us/kenneth-walker-breonna-taylor-dismissed-charges/index.html
I didn’t realize I was giving legal advice. I was pointing out their duty of care based on the training and education I received while pursuing a bachelors degree for law enforcement.
Was there something specific you’re taking issue with or did you just want to snark?
Just as there is no for cops murdering pretty much anyone for anything on the clock. “Standing your ground” to these bastards is plain playing with fire. If you’re not perfectly white and very lucky, you’ll be just signing your own death warrant.
Most 2a people want to shoot people without consequence, not defend anyone.
the ammosexuals want to, they fantasize about it all the time.
Mate, Ive never wanted a gun for more than pew pew at the range. However, we are at the point where our 2a right to defend ourselves is actually relevant.
There are masked, plainclothes officers abducting people off the street. How do I know that they are within their legal rights?
Trump is approving breaking into peoples houses without a warrant. How do I know they have a legal right to do so?
I’m not trigger happy. If you show me a signed warrant and identify yourself so that I can verify who you are, we got no problems. Otherwise, how do I know you are who you say you are?
Trump is approving breaking into peoples houses without a warrant. How do I know they have a legal right to do so?
That’s simple. They don’t, ever. Unless the 4th amendment has been repealed, all of these raids are illegal.
That’s not going to stop you from being shot or prosecuted if you defend yourself, though.
If they come for me, I’m going, but some of them are going with me.
Sometimes that might be necessary. Just don’t be rash about it, there’s always more of them and only one of you.
There’s more of us.
Yes but is your skin a bit too dark? Yes? Then deported
I’m gonna get serious flak for saying this, but “the Irish aren’t white.” Not to MAGA. Neither are the Italians, nor the Greeks, nor the Polish. The Brits are out, we overthrew them in 1776. We beat the Germans in 1945, and the Ruskies in 1992.
You’re Catholic? You’re not welcome. You live north of Richmond? Northern Aggressor. You live in one of the 21 states with a coastline? Coastal Elitist.
It’s not “being white isn’t enough anymore,” it’s “nothing is white enough anymore.” They will find any part of your identity to discredit and ruin. And if they can’t, they’ll make one up, until they finally consume themselves.
Get ready for the Coastal Elitist North Aggressors of Colorado, the Johnsons.
